Talk:Prospect Heights, Brooklyn

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag of New York City
NYC Portal

This article is part of WikiProject New York City, an effort to create, expand, and improve New York City-related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard.

Bulletin: The next New York City meetup is Sunday June 1st.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.


==

RE: unsigned comments below from Optonline IP 156.47.15.10

I have adopted a compromise wording. But look, one more time and slower: you've mentioned copies of the same map at three different locations now, including City Planning, community board, etc. The problem with those maps is that they do not show a boundary. It's fine that neighborhoods change. The point is that to give evidence of change you need a source of equivalent authority and contemporaneity to the encyclopedia which actually cites a boundary, and none of those show a boundary. Also, the standard here is not how things work in NYC, but how they work on Wikipedia--it does not defer to what you someone says is commonly accepted; it defers to published sources. CHE 21:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

==

Follow the link to the map of New York City neighborhoods produced by the New York City Department of City Planning. Note that "Prospect Heights" is divided almomst in HALF by wahsington avenue. It is NOT the eastern boundary. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/neighbor/neighl.shtml

The Encylopedia of New York is not the definitive source. Looking through the descriptions of other neighborhoods shows that the bounudaries it lists do not match the boundaries that are commonly accepted (and those noted in separate wikipedia definitions). Again, NYC neighborhood boundaries are constantly changing. Note that the Encyclopedia of NY doesn't even have an entry for Nolita. Granted, I hate the name and concept of that neighborhood, but it is a neighborhood by popular use. It defines an area as much as any other neighborhood. That's how things work in NYC.

Between the map of neighborhood produced by New york City's Department of city Planning, and the map from the local Community Board, it is abundantly clear that the boundary is well east of Washington avenue.

Case closed!!! ==

RE: unsigned comments below from Optonline IP 156.47.15.10
  • (a) It's almost certainly disingenuous to say that you've been "following the controversy." Despite that you haven't signed any of your comments, you, or someone at this same IP address, has made most four of the edits changing the boundary from Washington to Bedford.
  • (b) This "community board" source you're citing is the same one I mentioned back on July 23. It does NOT show any boundary at all for Prospect Heights, since it simply has the word extend east as long as it takes to print. Since it shows no boundary, it can't be an authority on the boundary. The one authoritative source cited so far has been the Encyclopedia of the City of New York.
  • (c) Regarding your previous remarks that "the description should reflect what people call the area": if you can find an authoratative source saying that Bedford "is what people call the boundary," then that would be great. However, short of that, your experience of what people call it (which contradicts my own experience) counts on Wikipedia as Original Research, and so falls on wrong side of the main rule, No Original Research. Wikipedia defaults to an authoritative, published source. If you produce an equivalently authoritative source to the Encyclopedia, well, THEN we would have a genuine disagreement.
  • (d) It's not clear to me that 10 years is a significant enough time that parts of Crown Heights would stop being Crown Heights.
  • (e) What "the area has gentrified" has anything to do with whether the area is called PH or Crown Heights, I have no idea, though what it appears to suggest--that the area, if it becomes wealthier, should no longer be called Crown Heights just for that reason--is pretty offensive. CHE 23:54, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

==

I've been following the controversy about the western boundary. The vast majority of maps that I've found show prospect heights going well east of Washington Avenue. If anyone had the final answer, I would say it was the local community board. I looked on their website and found that their map showed that Prospect Hieghts extended far east of Washington Avenue. See http://www.brooklyncb8.org/maps.htm#neighborhoods

I think this puts this issue to rest for once and for all.


Every map that I've been able to find indicates that Prospect Heights continues well past Washington Avenue to the east. The neighborhood boundary has definitely changed.


neighborhood boundaries and names are constantly changing. This is how New York City has always been. The Encylopedia of New York, which is now 10 years old, is not the definitive source. There is no clear cut answer. Everyone has an agenda on where to place the boundary. Wikipedia is not meant to ste an agenda so the description should reflect what people call the area. And by the way, the area has gentrified. This is what happens in New York

who ever edited back to bedford ave should be shot! but anyway bedford is part of crown heights! and bedstuy ! not prospect heights. smells like a realtor changing this.

Contents

[edit] ==

Washington has always been the boundary, and nobody even discussed the idea of Bedford being anything other than Crown Heights before gentrification and greedy realtors hit the area. That NYC map isn't really convincing- I think they just couldn't fit the words Prospect Heights inside the real boundaries with the size font they were using. If you turn up an actual document that spells out such a boundary explicitly (with text, or as a map with clearly defined boundaries) I'd be more inclined to agree. The Encyclopedia of the City of New York (Columbia Univ Press) lists Washington as the boundary.

[edit] ==

I'd always thought that Washington Ave was the Eastern boundary, and so, in agreement with you, was headed to look for documentation for that view, so that Bedford could be expunged once and for all, and turned up from the NYC government the following, which places the boundary at Bedford: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/lucds/bk8profile.pdf Is there any good documentation to support Washington Ave? CHE 21:47, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ==

Folks I posted the info from the Brooklyn Eagle regarding the boundaries being in question since 1889. This has been an issue since day 1. However I still lean towards the boundary as Washington and NOT Bedford. I will try to research this some more.


Bidofthis 03:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ==

This page definitely needs some more fixing up. I tried to remove the non-neutral point-of-view material, and make it more neutral than it was in various ways. But the article could use some citations for the current development controversy section, and more filling out generally. CHE 00:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I've done some further neutral-POV cleanup. Mrnorwood 01:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] NPOV dispute

This article cites and promotes a local restaurant and website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_Heights%2C_Brooklyn#Culture


Promotion of a business and a personal website (even if it is sold as a community site) is not a neutral POV, in my opinion. The restaurant may have some local historic value, but I see no evidence to back that up. The inclusion of personal website, especially one that contains advertising and whose revenue may be increased through linking from this Wikipedia page is to me, inappropriate.

  • Remove it. Alansohn 19:36, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tillamook Cheddar

I love that this neighborhood only boasts five notable residents--one of who is a dog! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.0.133 (talk) 04:47, 30 April 2008 (UTC)