Talk:Princess Margarita of Romania

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Contents 1 Accused by Humanité- the French Communist Party Newspaper 2 Which "royal family of Hohenzollern"? 3 Requested move 3.1 Survey 3.2 Discussion

[edit] Accused by Humanité- the French Communist Party Newspaper

Accused by Humanité newspaper, the French Communist Party Organ???? This is really serious, terrible! How will she ever get over this? Wow! How awful! Poor woman. Arkadiam 21:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Former organ. The political affiliation of the newspaper is, anyways, irrelevant. The newspaper report had quoted the AFP press agency: "puisqu’une très sérieuse dépêche AFP d’hier annonce (...)." Stefanp 21:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. You do not know what the AFP dépêche actually wrote. If you can find that, then you can quote it. It is l' Humanité that you are quoting, and that is your source. If Humanité's source is AFP that is their problem.

Second,the political affiliation of a newspaper is very important, readers have the right to know as much as possible about a source quoted in Wikipedia in order to assess it's verifiability and reliability. It is Wikipedia policy

[[1]] and [[2]] among other wikipedia pages.Arkadiam 10:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which "royal family of Hohenzollern"?

Translation of the pertinent fragment from "Blackberry Juice" (in Romanian), Gandul, June 21, 2006: "Although it is known that some of the rust of the British frigates ended up in the pockets of the royal family of Hohenzollern, the Romanian authorities rushed to muzzle the affair. Because, as a two penny nation, we have groveled so much before a king crushed by history, that after we had "forgiven" him for his father's mistakes, for his flirting with the fascist salute, and for the "Pobeda" order of daddy Stalin, we didn't shy away from calling "highness" even an eater of public funds, through whose veins a blackberry ("duda" in Romanian) juice runs." It is clear that the fragment speaks of that royal family of Hohenzollern to which both Radu Duda and King Michael - who ruled under the Nazis, was decorated by Stalin, and whose father, King Carol II, made the mistakes of giving away Bessarabia, Bucovina, and the NV of Transylvania without a fight - belong: the Romanian royal family. Ergo, it is Princess Margarita's family which is being discussed in the article, not another. Stefanp 23:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice of you to translate for us. The author says the "royal family of Hohenzollern," so if you are using this source you must be precise, even if he is wrong. M.Dinescu does not say Margarita's family got the money, it is very clear from your translation. AFAIK the Romanian RF seems to get on quite badly with the Hohenzollerns. That she comes from Hohenzollern stock does not lead to the automatic conclusion that "her" family got the money. Editors must be sensitive when writing biographies of living people and adhere strictly to NPOV and avoid "interpretations" of the sources. Just quote them as precisely as possible.[[3]].Arkadiam 10:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

The quoted "royal family of Hohenzollern" is only one: the Romanian one, that is Margarita's. The German Hohenzollern forefathers of the Romanian ones are a princely, not a royal house. The only other Hohenzollerns, cousins of the former, who used to rule the German empire, are an imperial house. So there is no POV here about "her" family: these are well-established facts. Parisian2006 06:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

There is no "royal family of Hohenzollern" whatsoever. There is a Royal House of Hohenzollern which can be said to describe the Prussian and Romanian royal families. Charles 07:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Wrong, for two reasons. 1. There is no Royal House anylonger in either Germany or Romania. The Royal House (see Wikipedia link) is a State institution in a Monarchy. None of the two countries are monarchies, so they don't have any royal houses anylonger. Once the Monarchy overthrown, the Royal House becomes a deposed Royal House or former Royal House or simply a royal family. A royal family can still exist in both extant and non-extant monarchies, since it doesn't imply institutional State functions as a House would. Thus, the author of the article correctly employed the term royal family, which, indeed, continues to exist in Romania, unlike your claim about a non-extant Royal House. If Romania were to become a Monarchy again, only then we could speak legally of a Royal House. 2. The Prussian family is an imperial and royal family, not just royal family. The only royal family is the Romanian one. As about the exact name of each branch, while it's true that the genealogists like to name the Romanian Hohenzollerns and their German princely ancestors from the Swabian branch as "Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen", in order to differentiate them from their imperial Prussian cousins from the Franconian branch, the princes of various branches call themselves simply "von Hohenzollern" (see, for instance, this royalty news report about the H.-S. princes). Michael also styled himself upon his abdication simply "of Hohenzollern" (source 1 and source 2), not "of Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen". Hence, it is correct to call the Romanian royal family either way: "of H." (as the princes do) or "of H.-S." (as the genealogists do). Either way, there is only one royal family, the Romanian one. The other two German families are one princely (the Swabian branch), one both imperial and royal (the Franconian Prussian branch). Stefanp 09:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

If there is no longer any royal house then why is it used in this article? Deposed royal houses and former royal houses are still royal houses! Royal Houses are not state institutions... "Hohenzollern" is not a state institution, nor is "Oldenburg", "Wettin", "Wittelsbach", "Bourbon", "Zähringen", "Ascania", you name it... The Prussian family is a royal family. Prussia was not an empire nor were all of the princes of Prussia titled "German Prince" or "Prince of Germany". If is not correct to call the Romanians the so-and-so family of Hohenzollern because that implies territoriality. Like I said, it should be properly amended to read Romanian royal family. In fact, I'm going to do it now. Charles 03:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It is beyond doubt the author spoke of the only royal family of H., the Romanian one, given that: 1. the second sentence "Because..." which explains the first one about the H. family, makes direct or indirect references to two of its members: Radu Duda and King Michael, 2. there is no mention whatsoever of Germany in the entire article. Stefanp 10:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Then let's change it to Roumanian Royal Family! We don't need to perpetuate the sloppiness of others. Charles 03:28, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. I further removed link left over from the sentence you had just edited out. Stefanp 19:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move