Talk:Princes of Orange

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Why are both William I of Orange-Baux (1182-1218) and William I of Orange-Nassau (1544-1584) referred to as 'William I'? Shouldn't William I of Orange-Nassau be referred to as William III, since he was the third sovereign Prince of Orange by the name of William? I know that William I of Orange-Nassau is referred to as William I of Orange, but why is this correct?

Because he was the first in row of persons of a new dynasty Demophon 03:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I see. I that case 'William II (1463-1475)' of the House of Châlon-Arlay should really be 'William I' (1463-1475) of the House of Châlon-Arlay, since he was the first sovereign by the name of William of the House of Châlon-Arlay. If no one objects, I will change the text accordingly.

Moreover, both William III of England and William IV of the United Kingdom should be William I, since they were both the first sovereign of England and the United Kingdom by the name of William from the House of Orange-Nassau and the House of Hanover respectively.

Brederode 00:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

This problem is also debated at the discussion site of William the Silent, see Talk:William_the_Silent#William I?, Talk:William_the_Silent#William I of Orange/William I, Prince of Orange, Talk:William_the_Silent#Requested_move, and Talk:William_of_Orange. I'm not an expert in this case, but in answering your question I would take the following into mind:

• How did the William of Orange's name themselve?
• How were they named in their days by others?
• How are they commonly named in present-day, concerning the number?

I think that the common opinion is to name William the Silent, William I (although the 'I' was not used in his days), and his successors as Wiliam II, William III, William IV, William V, and William VI. William III is named with the 'III' because he's not only the 3th William of Orange-Nassau but also because he was the 3th English king with the name William. William VI of Orange-Nassau is named after 1813 King William I of the Netherlands (the first king of the Netherlands with the name William, therefore the 'I').

Concerning William (1463-1475) of the House of Châlon-Arlay: I don't know. But see this: [1]. According to this site he should be named William VIII (of Chalon), and therefore the list on the Wikipedia site Princes of Orange is incomplete. Why William VIII? He is a son of Mary of Baux (or Mary of Châlon), whom on her turn is the daughter of Raymond III of Baux. So, although House of Châlon-Arlay, he's a direct descendant of William I (of Baux) (c.1155-1218). William the Silent was not a (direct) descendant of William I of Baux, he only (legally) obtained the title Prince of Orange, and thereby founded the House of Orange-Nassau. Quote from this Wikipedia site: The last descendant of the original princes, René of Nassau, left the principality to his cousin William the Silent, who was not a descendant of the original Orange family but the legal heir of the principality of Orange. René of Nassau by the way obtained the title indirectly from his uncle Philibert of Châlon, the last Prince of Orange in the House of Châlon. Demophon 03:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)