Talk:Prince-elector

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[edit] older entries

This is a horrible title, but I am having trouble thinking of a better one -- Imperial Elector? Electors of the Holy Roman Empire? An adjectival/genetive reference would be better than everything in the nominative...JHK

I like 'Electors of the HRE'
At the risk of being crude, that sounds like the name of a Playboy pictorial....
mmmmmm, show me your wittelsbachs, bay-beee...
Electors of the Holy Roman Empire gets my vote. But also consider Electoral College of the Holy Roman Empire

To M. Tinkler and JHK Please check out Kurfuersten/Electors . Also let me know about the German ( or English) names on the Hohenzollern list ?? Thanks user:H.J.

"...shortly before the Empire was abolished by Napoleon I..."

I understood that it was abolished in order to prevent the possibility of its being taken over and used by Napoleon to support his legitimacy, i.e. as a consequence of him but not by him. What is the actual siuation? PML.


I also like "Elector of the Holy Roman Empire" better than this title. As for the abolition, what happened was that Napoleon created the Confederation of the Rhine. The states that joined it (including Bavaria, Wurttemberg, and Baden), seceded from the Holy Roman Empire, and the Emperor eventually decided to give up the ghost, and declared the Empire at an end. I'm going to edit a bit. john 02:30 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

What about the adjectival Holy Roman Imperial Elector? -- Lord Emsworth 02:47, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Britannica (online ed.) has, "...Beginning around 1273 and with the confirmation of the Golden Bull of 1356, there were seven electors..."; what happened circa 1273? — Matt 09:39, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Britannica, then, contradicts my main source for the original composition of the collegiate: Lord Bryce's Holy Roman Empire. Lord Bryce suggests that Pope Urban IV wrote a letter mentioning seven electoral princes, but Urban died in 1264—before the year mentioned in Britannica. -- Emsworth 14:40, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
Maybe one for meta:Making fun of Britannica? Rudolf I of the House of Habsburg was elected in 1273, maybe that's what Britannica was referring to. — Matt 14:53, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Electoral Prince

Is it appropriate to give "Electoral Prince" as an equivalent to "Prince-Elector"? My understanding was that the former term was generally used for heirs to Prince-Electors, and not for prince-electors themselves. john k 06:48, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Regarding the abolition of the HRE. I think it is accurate to say that it was Napoleon himself who abolished it, rather than the Habsburg emperor. Napoleon was at the time the undisputed master of Europe, and the abolition was imposed on the Habsburgs as a virtual decree from Bonbaparte. While Franz II, as the last title holder, executed the formalities of the abolition, the act itself can be unambiguously attributed to Napoleon. I shall stop short of reverting the edit of StanZegel, however, to preserve the distinction of that formality. Thank you StanZegel for that edit, in fact. --A. S. A. 06:29, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Chamberlain

Link to Chamberlain is to a disambiguation page. It seems that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned there. Can somebody even link chamberlain to a correct article or create it as red link? Can somebody confirm me that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned on disambiguation page? --Jan.Smolik 09:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language tangle

The following passage (from Composition, 1st paragraph after bulleted lists) is both pedantic and poorly edited.

By the thirteenth century, the Franconian and Swabian ducal lines became extinct (both had been most recently been held by the Hohenstaufen, Swabia as their ancestral duchy and extinct in 1268, Franconia as a sort of secundogeniture, extinct much earlier, but Franconian ducal lands had been passed through inheritances to Count Palatine of the Rhine, heirs of Frederick Barbarossa's younger brother); their electoral claims passed to the Count Palatine of the Rhine, Imperial Arch-Stewards and holders of the ancient capital Aachen, and the Margrave of Brandenburg, Imperial Arch-Chamberlains since Albert the Bear.

The passage implies, but does not clearly state, that electoral privileges used to reside in the Franconian and Swabian ducal lines, then later passed to the Count Palatine of the Rhine and the Margrave of Brandenburg. If that is the case, that is what we should state in the article. However no source is given, and the 1911 Britannica [1] doesn't mention it. Overall the contribution is of poor quality and likely to confuse readers. I have removed it. -- Rob C (Alarob) 17:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HRE Criticism Edit

User:Fabartus was kind enough to add to the introduction of this article the following: "When the term "Elector" or "election of a king" is mentioned during the High Middle Ages and afterwards, the term almost certainly is refering to that curiously inept geopolitical entity that managed somehow to last century after century, usually to the detriment of the common people of Europe run over by the wars that ensued." Seems a bit... POV to me. 205.157.110.11 01:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

no not really. just the usual bullshit of whose knowledge sucks big time.--Tresckow (talk) 03:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)