Talk:Priesthood of all believers

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The Messiah's ministry destroyed and obviated and made utterly irrelavant the Temple cult. It is no coincidence that the coming in of Christianity dove-tailed with the destruction of the Temple, the two were at odds. The Truth of Christianity comes only with the Falsehood of the (elite) Temple Priesthood. A "Kingdom of Priests" is precisely what the Messiah introduced, in the sense of 1 Peter 2:9.

In the Old Testament, Israel and Judah are notorious for persecuting Prophets and apostasizing. Scripture reads, "...Kingdom of Priests..." Yet, these kingdoms had an elite priesthood. Such is merely more apostasis. Do I understand that the orthodox churches use this as justification for theirs? That would not seem to make sense, to base church hierarchy on sin. This could perhaps be clarified to more properly portray the orthodox churches' positions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.235.44.73 (talk • contribs) .

The priesthood in the Old Testament was established by God, as recorded in the Pentateuch, when Aaron and others were made priests. Priests played an essential role in the whole system of Temple worship. Jesus affirmed their role when he told the healed lepers to go and show themselves to the priests, in accordance with the scripture. Luke 1 also begins with Zechariah serving as a priest before God, and no hint is given of his office being part of any apostasy; only his initial unbelief is criticized by the narrative. So yes, Orthodox churches do base their priesthood in part on this Old Testament priesthood. The 'elders' or 'presbyters' that Paul speaks of are also understood to be priests. Wesley 22:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, regarding the sin of the temple priest was completely detached and seperate from the authority of given to the priest by God. This is clearly stated in Matthew Chapter 23: 1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. Despite the sins of some priest, they were still given authority by God. Orthodox teaching is based not only on the Old Testament, but on the words of Jesus himself. Just as God the Father founded the first covenant with Moses, the Church of Jesus was founded on St. Peter. staroftheshow86

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[edit] Same thing?

If this is identical with priesthood of all people, universal priesthood, universal priesthood of all believers and all believers' priesthood, some redirects to this article would be nice. That is, if those are not merely similar names for similar concepts in individual branches of the religion.

If I knew anything about Christian theology, I would have done it myself. Wikipeditor 21:22, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Restorationist interpretations

Not sure the best way to introduce this into the article, but many Restorationist groups have significant doctrinal attachment to this tenet. In the churches of Christ fellowships, for example, it is used to establish that although a congregation may have one or more (paid or unpaid) designated minister(s), all the members have a responsibility for the church and for doing many of the activities commonly associated with a minister, such as evangelizing. Therefore there is, officially at least, no clergy/laity distinction, although those members who make up the congregation's eldership usually have authority over the members. Although this tenet would imply that all members could preach, women typically are excluded from certain roles on the basis of interpretation of other segments of the scriptures. It seems as if this should fit in somewhere around the place where the article mentions congregational polity, but I'm not sure where or how. Lawikitejana 02:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarify please

from the section: Non-Protestant Interpretations of 1 Peter 2:9

"Korah then with his 250 followers break away from the authority of Moses to follow there person misinterpretation of the "priesthood" and as a result are slain by God for offering incense"

I don't understand what "to follow there person misinterpretation" means. It could be mispelling of (there -> their) and/or grammar. I would fix it myself if I understood what the author meant. EmeraldElement 20:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article was extremely biased!

It was even rude and sarcastic! Good thing I fixed it. -RedBlade7 18:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing rude or sarcastic in the items you changed. Could you explain what you mean? Thanks! --Ctobola 19:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This Doctrine is misrepresented

This is a false representation of the Doctrine of the Priesthood of the Believer (PB). The following reasons will show why:

1. This doctrine was established in the Old Testament and did not begin in the New Testament. I submit the following verse of scripture for evidence:

Exodus 19:5,6

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


2. The (PB) is a seperate doctrine unrelated to the Old Testament office of Priests.

3. The true doctrine of (PB) is defined by the above verse. Obey, keep my commandment, peculiar, and holy are all words that define this doctrine.

4. This doctrine has to do with the relationship and responsibility of the individual believer and has never been understood as the replacement of the OT office priests.


This entry is in complete error and has no basis or foundation.

[edit] Deleted section

I deleted the following section because it seemed purely argumentative and also seemed out of place where it was.

This seems to go against Exodus 19:6, to which Saint Peter was alluding in the First Epistle of Peter:
" ...you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'

These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites." (NIV)

At Sinai, the Israelites rejected being individual kingdom priests, after hearing God speak once directly to them, but instead asked Moses to be their mediator. See Exodus 20:19 "They said to Moses, 'Speak with us yourself, and we will listen; but don't let God speak with us, lest we die.'"

Thus, the Kingdom of Israel retained a priesthood distinct from the common priesthood of the individual Israelites, the chosen people of God. To reaffirm this interpretation, the Schism of Korah from Israel. Korah restates Exodus 19:6 in [(Numbers 16:3)] saying:

"The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the LORD'S assembly?" ([NIV])

Korah then with his 250 followers breaks away from the authority of Moses to follow their personal interpretation of the "priesthood" and as a result are slain by God for offering incense [(Numbers 16:35)]:

"And fire came out from the LORD and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense." ([NIV])

1 Timothy 2:5-6 ("...who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time."), to Christians of Apostolic Churches, is understood as meaning Jesus is the only mediator in terms of the sacrifice for salvation.

Does anyone think this should be restored in some form? And who exactly is meant by the "Apostolic Churches"? I think the author may have meant Protestants here, but Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians also consider themselves apostolic, and would also agree that "Jesus is the only mediator in terms of the sacrifice for salvation." Wesley 03:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Not knowing exactly what the original author believed by "apostolic". It would appear that the author meant some pentecostal denominations that use this term.--Drboisclair 14:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I take that back. I would guess that the author means Orthodox + Roman Catholic + High Church Lutherans and Anglicans.--Drboisclair 14:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The need for detailed work

We have a presentation in this article of what the general priesthood means in Lutheranism, but we need representation from other denominations as to what they believe about this concept. Lutheranism does not use this doctrine to reject regular called and ordained ministers in their congregations. As one can see from the article linked at the bottom of this article, Timothy Wengert shows that this was never Luther's intention. Further work needs to be done on how Philipp Jakob Spener developed this concept, and the manner in which this concept was further developed in the 19th century.--Drboisclair 14:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Further on this: there are Lutherans, though, who believe that the "priesthood of all believers" does away with the medieval concept of the "clergy." This, however, cannot be based on Luther. It is a belief of Pietism.--Drboisclair 17:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)