Talk:Play-by-post role-playing game

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[edit] A Play-by-Wiki Resource

I am posting a link here to a resource for Mediawiki-Wiki-based Roleplaying. I searched for examples when trying to set up this wiki, and I was unable to find anything that was really helpful. I think it would be helpful to people setting up a game, especially new wiki users, if they could see a site where a lot of effort has been put into the wiki-side of Play-by-Wiki, and basically be able to copy wiki-code, the wiki's skin, page formatting, and various ideas from it. It is a wiki that matured and grew over two years.

For example, some of the character sheets and the council records are multi-page, and linked together with template based tabs - and done so in an easier to understand way than the example used on wikipedia.

The posting of this link is not an attempt to gain new players, as the game has ended, nor is it an attempt to gain visitors. The wiki was originally hosted by EditThis, but was later acquired by Wikia due to the volume of posting. The game uses the Ars Magica system, which is heavy on administration and record keeping, so has a variety of such pages. In addition, the site features a lot of historical and geographical information.

Anyway, given the above explanation, I hope that this will not be deleted on a whim. It is more important that resources be found and provided for PbW than PbM, due to the added difficulties present, like how-to-use a wiki, or things more unique to PbW, like etiquette/rules regarding posting at multiple points on the same page in the same edit.

http://arsmagica.wikia.com

I don't know if anyone else would be up to it, but I think it would be lovely if Play-by-Post gaming could become more than a mere stub.

Would anyone be interested in writing up a whole article on play-by-post gaming, perhaps even try and collate a history for it, and highlight some examples of the various genres play-by-post gaming has seen? - kimmetje


I think compiling a history of the form might be a more daunting task than any of us could imagine..perhaps a community effort would be best.

It would indeed be a great idea to do this and indeed, perhaps organising a history of pbp-gaming is harder than it looks. But certainly there is a lot more that could be said than what is being said currently! - kimmetje

Potential source of problem. The current play-by-post gaming page seems almost exactly like its http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_text_based_role_playing_game counterpart. Might need to be discussed - kimmetje.

Not "exactly like" (the content of the two are not at all similar), but I suggest that the two be merged. jglc | t | c 14:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I'd like to note....

The deffinition of this term seems to be the same as an older entry called OTBRPG. Both terms seem to have a small following however (though most players seem to have no real term for it)

Well, if we're being technical, Alleria, Overseas, and a few others started out by calling the process FFRPG/Free-Form RPG. I think there's a semantic difference in that "Play by Post" could imply simply the media -- Webboards -- much as "Play by Email" denotes Email, where as FFRPG implies the style of play used. I'm not familiar with OTBRPG, but will read up on it presently.

What would you suggest? I know that I personally would like to see articles divided by gaming "platform." For example, play by email (PbEM), play by post (PBP), play by chat (although this could be further divided into MUDs/MUs/IRC/etc). Or perhaps an all encompassing "roleplaying online" article with all of the different methods of playing listed. I personally feel that the OTBRPG article is too general and the acronym is a mouthful (and for some reason the "Common/Basic Rules and Etiquette" make my fingers itch to change them). I've never even used the term OTBRPG in all my time as a collaborative writer (the first time I came across it was here on Wikipedia). I know that about five years ago, at least in my "circle of online roleplaying" it was also a common practice to call PBP games "online simulations," or simply "sim games," because we simulated life with the characters we created. With the introduction of The Sims online PC game though, that came to a screeching stop.


Perhaps if PBP could be more thoroughly explained? I have just finnished revamping the fanboy-raped article that was OTBRPG and hope to continue to improve it. "Common rules and etiquette" (Admittedly, my own creation and mistake) will not likely be appearing in that article again. I can't say I agree with your idea of articles divided by gaming "platform." As in the end, it's all really just the same activity. To use a metaphore, it seems to me like creating seperate articles for speach depending on weather it was face to face or over a telephone. What benifits would multiple articles bring? In the end, there are so many different words for it (OTB, PBP, etc) and there are probably a dozen more phrases that neither of us have ever heard of. The current revision of OTBRPG states the basic criteria for a game to be considered an OTBRPG. As you seem to be qutie well versed in PBP gaming, would you mind looking at my article and telling me if they are the same, or if there is a difference?
Dividing by platform is a bad idea for similar platforms. Asynchronous play is pretty much asynchronous play, outside of the technical details of message transport - play by forum is not so different from play by mailing list is not so different from play by newsgroup (and what are you going to do with sites that support access to the same messages from multiple platform types?) I'd assume play by IRC is sufficiently similar to play by IM to class them together, but I'm less familiar with that sort of gaming. 207.178.110.185 21:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Excellent ideas abound...

Perhaps we need to figure out all of who would be interested in contributing to a revamp of the current article and then take it to e-mail. I don't know about you all, but I'm not all that addicted to Wikipedia and don't come here often. I think this and the related articles need to be revisited and a framework needs to be developed. We need to approach this particular play-by-post article - with greater objectivity and greater depth.

On the other hand, I'm sure it's quite useful for passer-bys to get an example of the style of gaming in action. I thus think it would also be good if we somehow expanded on all the different examples of play-by-post games. It would much more useful to get a good description of the games that are presented in this content item and explain how they do what they do?

Just some thoughts

(Kimmetje 10:50, 19 February 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Mkay.

Looks like someone already has merged it with Role-playing blog. I'm assuming that little notice can go then? Not sure how this works. If someone knows, they should probably delete the old role-playing blog entry. Not exactly worth its own article if you ask me.

Otherwise the PbP definition looks pretty decent at this point.

[edit] Dealing with the proliferation of Links

Whilst I am happy to see that there are more links around. I'm also noticing some of these links are coming from sites with very little activity - to none at all - I am of the opinion the links mentioned should feature only the largest play-by-post games in a given genre.

What are your opinions?

--Kimmetje 19:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)



Added back in 'Empire of Ashes': it's pretty active IMO but more importantly represents a 'straight' Historical RPG without fantasy elements - a genre otherwise unrepresented in the links. I'll take it out though if people object. Ross Nolan 16:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)



As you mentioned it's a fairly unrepresented genre! Glad you know of some. Maybe there needs to be a criteria a play-by-post game needs to meet before being included in this list. All others could go in a list of "Other play-by-post games" whilst the ones meeting the criteria can go under "Major play-by-post games" or something to that effect.

--Kimmetje 19:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


This is Maeve from Tazlure from my laptop (so no login). This may sound strange coming from me, but why was Alleria removed, or am I missing something? As far as I know that is a major RPG game, even if you take a fair amount of ego into account. Sadness that the links are not on alphabetical order in their category. 5/29/06

[edit] More on External Links

Hey Maeve, Kimm and others active here. I agree the links section got totally out of hand. Deleting them all was probably the best thing to do and we need a criteria to keep it clean. Unfortunately what constitutes a "major" pbp site is a little subjective and leaves the smaller ones (er... like mine) out of the loop. I know this isn't supposed to be a way to advertize but lets face it, that's what it's being used for, even by the big guys.

My suggestion is to only allow portals, not individual PbP boards in the external links section. The major sites have their own wikipedia articles anyway, and unless the number of those grows too large we can leave those linked under "related" not "external" links. If you know of a good portal (there are so very few good ones) put it up here.

Also, at the very least, make sure there is no subjective promotional talk like "friendly, growing, wonderful RP site!" anywhere. --Frugen 15:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

So, how about using this link: (edited out)

Wow. Consider yourself reported for abuse. IP: 213.48.73.94 I removed the link.
Wow? If you say that you're reporting me you could at least mention the reason.
Frugen said: "My suggestion is to only allow portals, not individual PbP boards in the external links section."
And I kindly provided him with a link to a site listing various PbP games. That you can avoid direct advertising and in my opinion it would be more fair.

I hesitate to remove the external links to pbp forums until someone else also agrees that external links should only be a list of links to directories or portals. I will wait a week or two and if there's no objections just take them down. This means removing anything at all in external links (not the 'related links' to other wikipedia articles) that lead to game forums. Things like Pbem2.com, playbywiki.com, rpgee.com, service providers and that kind of stuff.

Oh yeah, and whoever went and edited up the definition by taking out the repeated definition of message board roleplaying, thanks. I meant to do that eventually. The definition looks much better now, if shorter. --Frugen 02:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have this suggestion. Maybe you could delete it, but include a link to one or more sites that list various PbP message boards. This way you would theoretically avoid using this page for advertisements, yet still give the readers some easy place to go if they are interested in this system. The message boards on these pages are often ranked by users rating etc. and so the major websites usually happen to be at top as well. I would post a link, but for some odd reason the link here was deleted with someone saying that I'm being reported. So, just tell me if this interests you and I can post the link again (because I seriously see nothing wrong with it). Ahemait 11:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

That's what I meant by directories and portals. Pbem2, playbywiki, rpgee are all either site lists or services. --Frugen 23:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well that certainly cleaned up the article! Much better indeed! Well done, ladies and gentlemen. --Kimmetje 21:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that external links from the PbP gaming section should try and direct users to major PbP sites. I define "major" as: 1.) Possessing a comprehensive listing of PbP sites on the Internet; and/or 2.) Possessing an active community of users with more than just a few active games, the ability for new DMs to jump in and start a new game, and the ability for new players to create a character and jump right in and start playing.

Whomever is modifying the external links seems to be operating in an extremely arbitrary manner. --E2thej 16:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


I agree with the above poster. I don't see what the difference is between dndonlinegames.com and the other play by post sites that are listed in the external links section. Lets try to be fair here people. Don't delete valid external links! -- Arthur [[1]] Tue Jul 11 12:34:37 EDT 2006

It's interesting that some anonymous person keeps removing links, but otherwise refuses to discuss what constitutes a valid external link. This *is* a community resource is it not? --E2thej 03:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


I've reviewed the Wikipedia guidelines for external links (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_link) and found no official reason why external links cannot be added that demonstrate (and allow users to participate) in PbP gaming. What better way to learn about PbP than to see it in action? Given that there are no rules to the contrary, I'd suggest that whomever is deleting external links please start discussing this before any further deletions. This is a community resource, and it doesn't bode well to have one person, or a small group, dictating to the rest of us what does or does not constitute a valid external link. --E2thej 17:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

There was a discussion. If you read up you will see it. I'm too lazy to quote it for you. There are too many individual forums to selfishly list them in the article. If people want to find games they can find them via the links provided.

Again. Simply because there *was* a discussion, doesn't mean the conversation is over. That has to be the worst attitude I can imagine for an alleged "community" resource like Wikipedia. --E2thej 17:49, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow. That was blunt, but I have to agree that we can't let the list contain individual websites or it will just become what it was before all the editing. It gets bloated with ads in no time. ANyway, I added RPG Gateway to the list. It's a big directory, I'm not sure why it wasn't there before. --Frugen 08:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

If people (eg. myth weavers forums) do not stop abusing the links section here with ads for their own games, I'm gonna have to ask someone to lock it or ban some editors for abuse. I know you read the discussion, and the section is clearly labeled, so it is obviously abuse. --Frugen 18:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Some of the leading play-by-post games' articles are being deleted or nominated to be deleted, meaning that very soon from now there will be no examples of prominent play-by-post games. In light of this, I would like to recommend that we as editors of this particular article consider some way of saving the content of these pages as they offer invaluable insight into the play-by-post gaming community. --212.190.72.17 12:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

... Or a way for people to use wikipedia to advertise. We should follow the vote process and review each PbP article on a case by case basis. There are very few active editors who pay any attention to this discussion here, but there are many game owners who just use it to promote and post links. It is subject to too much abuse. I think the articles in question should stay, but the way to save them is the usual process.--Frugen 07:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The AFD for New Worlds Project resulted in a 'keep' decision. I want to restore the link to the New Worlds Projecr article back but am conscious of our efforts to improve the quality of this article. I'm open to suggestions on how to add the article back in a way that maintains the flow of the current changes made to the play-by-post game article. --Kimmetje 09:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the Dragonmuse link ought to be taken down. There is no immediately obvious further information on pbp RPG's on that page. If it's buried, please link the buried portion instead of the front page.

Hello, all. I'm quite impressed with the Wiki project, and use it frequently as a reference, but this is the first time I thought about contributing significantly. Please help me out if I screw it up.

I really just want to add my input to this quite confused subject which has some misinformation. Up front, I want to mention, I am the secretary for a not-for-profit corporation running one of these websites that you seem to be arguing about whether it's advertising or not. I would like to point this out so that I'm not accused of wanting nothing but advertising, because I'm a volunteer in the first place for a website that doesn't make any money.

Frugen said in June 2006 (I know it's a while ago but I really just found this article), "If you know of a good portal (there are so very few good ones) put it up here." Well, the portal I'd like to put up here is Playbyweb.com, which has hundreds of RPing games and is totally free, as I've said.

E2thej said, also in July 2006, "I'd like to suggest that external links from the PbP gaming section should try and direct users to major PbP sites. I define "major" as: ... Possessing an active community of users with more than just a few active games, the ability for new DMs to jump in and start a new game, and the ability for new players to create a character and jump right in and start playing." This is definately Play By Web, and it seems it is appropriate for me to post this link here... right? If not, let me know. Email me if you can, please, it would be the best way for me.

With all of that said, what else does this article need? As far as reliable sources, I don't think there really would be any available unless you included web sources, or persons in a position to be considered 'authoritive' on the subject. If it's appropriate, the resources of Playbyweb, Inc. can be made available for this if you'd like. 2l8m8 22:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The article is looking way better after the major edits were done. It is actually presentable now. I'm not sure anything needs to be added, however it might use more elaboration on the terminology used in pbp games. Things like autoing and godmodding. I looked up godmodding and found the article is under review and is related to pbp gaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godmodding
I don't know what is expected in terms of "reliable sources" and citations in this article. Pbp gaming is an online activity and i've never seen any books on it. Expecting that seems hopeless for this article.
With regards to play by web, it is not about how large the community is or whether it is for profit or not. There are other very large not for profit pbp sites that had external links removed from this article (Alleria) because the article was being spammed by forum owners who wanted their games listed. Just how big and how many users a site should have before getting listed is hard to argue, and it's hard to measure just how many 'active' users a forum has anyway. I suggested, therefore, that only portals and resources for pbp games be listed, not websites that actually host individual games. Play by web is a hosting service even though there are numerous games inside. I would argue that it doesn't have external links or resources for PbPing in general. It's an iffy point. I'm not entirely against it being listed either, but I don't want something to open the same can of worms as before. --Frugen 22:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
After looking into it, and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_text-based_role-playing_game, I think some sources for reference do exist with a little searching from someone with some time. Check the links cited there, and see if they can apply to this article as well. Wikipedia does consider such links to be 'authoritative' enough for such a subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frug (talk • contribs) 23:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for Applications?

I think some explanation should be described in the article about how so many play-by-post role-playing games require applications. What is the point of applications? Can't members just role-play freely? Can't members just role-play as a guest? Can't members all just share the role of one character and play him or her? That would be my style of role-playing. Too much characters can make a role-play into a confusing soap opera. 76.192.142.216 (talk) 21:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC)