Talk:Plateosaurus

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[edit] clarify

"to which gives its name"? doesn't make sense.

[edit] Image caption

I believe the image that we have in the taxobox is in fact from Münchenstein in Switzerland. Does anyone know for sure? I have asked the photographer & await response. - Ballista 06:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I now have the definitive answer, from the photographer: "Hi Ballista, this picture definitely is from Switzerland, and the picture was taken in the de:Grün 80 park. This park is located near Basel. I visit this park every other week or so... regards, --Keimzelle 17:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)" so shall alter caption accordingly - Ballista 05:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "desert-like land"?

"The natural environment of Plateosaurus was desert-like land in Europe." We should be able to clarify more exactly here what is meant by this "desert-like" environment, and/or to link to an article on such an environment. -- Writtenonsand 15:18, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Agree, I was perplexed by this sentence but was leaving it until I looked into it a bit more before deleting off-hand.Cas Liber 22:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
It's a very good point. We could elaborate, within the article but, for now, I have linked to the Desert article. Howzat? - Ballista 05:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Well in the Dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures by Ingrid Cranfield it states Large heards...underwent seasonal migrations during the dry season in search of water and also they were found in two deposits in germany of many skeletons and the theory is they died in flash floods. But no statement on the environment. How do we know? Enlil Ninlil 05:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

'Tis a matter for looking atthe original material where this was suggested and working it out whether it was a good deduction or not..Cas Liber 09:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plateosaurus engelhardti & P. longiceps

The demonstration that Plateosaurus longiceps is distinct from P. engelhardti is based on the data below:

1. engelhardti is more heavily built and quadrupedal than longiceps.

2. longiceps has a longer head, longer legs and arms, and a higher degree of bipedalism than engelhardti.

3. engehardti is known only from Bavaria, Germany, while longiceps is known from other areas of southern Germany, France, Switzerland, and Denmark. (OK, this is in now)Cas Liber 06:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

4. longiceps is lighter than engelhardti in terms of weight.

Cite?Dinoguy2 14:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
This stuff is in Dinosauria 2nd Ed 2004, just hadn't gont round to this dino yet. Cas Liber 20:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Synonyms of Plateosaurus

Plateosaurus has gone in the past through eight generic synonyms: Dinosaurus Rütimeyer, 1856, Gresslyosaurus Rütimeyer, 1856, Dimodosaurus Pidancet & Chopard, 1862, Pachysaurus Huene, 1907-08, Pachysauriscus Kuhn, 1959, and Pachysaurops Huene, 1961. However, research by Peter Galton in 2001 showed that these genera are nomina dubia. Gresslyosaurus Rütimeyer, 1856 (incl. Dinosaurus Rütimeyer, 1856 [pre-occupied Fischer de Waldheim, 1847]) has been re-instated by Moser (2003) and should be placed in a separate page. The type species is Gresslyosaurus gresslyi (Rütimeyer, 1856) [originally Dinosaurus] (Gresslyosaurus ingens Rütimeyer, 1856 is a synonym).

Moser, 2003. Plateosaurus engelhardti Meyer, 1837 (Dinosauria: Sauropodomorpha) aus dem Feuerletten (Mittelkeuper; Obertrias) von Bayern. Zitteliana B 24, 3-186.

Mortimer (2006, online) recovered Gresslyosaurus as the sister taxon to Plateosaurus, found Sellosaurus to be more primitive than Gresslyosaurus or Plateosaurus, and demonstrated Efraasia, Plateosauravus, and Ruehlia to be outside Plateosauridae. The phylogenetic and taxonomic status of Dimodosaurus and Pachysaurus (incl. Pachysauriscus and Pachysaurops) is yet to be resolved.

Mortimer, M., 2006. http://staff.washington.edu/eoraptor/Nontheropods%20cladogram%20test.html

For these reasons, update the Plateosaurus page. 72.194.116.63 15:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demrijian 07.35 20 February 2007

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.194.116.63 (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Plateosaurus is the new collab with 6 votes

Nominated 7th May, 2007;

Support:

  1. cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 14:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  2. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  3. Dropzink 03:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  4. ArthurWeasley 17:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  5. Dinoguy2 02:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
  6. M&NCenarius 08:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Comments:

  • A triassic prosauropod about which a stack has been written. On the con side, there ain't much in the article yet...cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 14:43, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I've been wanting the group to work on this one for quite some time. We have no prosauropod articles that are in good shape (which, I imagine, is partially because the scientific status of the group is messy right now), but a good collaboration could fix many of the problems with this overly short article. Firsfron of Ronchester 17:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Ok, Platy is a good idea! Dropzink 03:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Yep, a triassic dinosaur for a change. ArthurWeasley 17:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I don't have much in the way of papers here, but it's a tripple threat--loads of info/studies, prosauropod (unrepresented group), and Triassic (unrepresented time period). Also the most well-known member of its group to the general public. Dinoguy2 02:51, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phylogeny

There are basically two phylogenies for early sauropodomorphs. There's Yates (paraphyletic Prosauropoda), and then there's Upchurch/Galton (somewhat more monophyletic Prosauropoda).

[edit] References

If anybody can get their hands on this, that would be magical.

  • Upchurch, P., Barrett, P.M., and Galton, P.M. 2007. A phylogenetic analysis of basal sauropodomorph relationships: implications for the origin of sauropod dinosaurs; pp. 57-90 in Barrett, P.M. and Batten, D.J. (eds.), Evolution and Palaeobiology of Early Sauropodomorph Dinosaurs. Special Papers in Palaeontology 77. Palaeontological Association, London. (Upchurch/Galton phylogeny)
  • Barrett, P.M., and Upchurch, P. 2007. The evolution of feeding mechanisms in early sauropodomorph dinosaurs; pp. 91-112 in Barrett, P.M. and Batten, D.J. (eds.), Evolution and Palaeobiology of Early Sauropodomorph Dinosaurs. Special Papers in Palaeontology 77. Palaeontological Association, London.
  • Bonnan, M., and Senter, P. 2007. Were the basal sauropodomorph dinosaurs Plateosaurus and Massospondylus habitual quadrupeds?; pp. 139-155 in Barrett, P.M. and Batten, D.J. (eds.), Evolution and Palaeobiology of Early Sauropodomorph Dinosaurs. Special Papers in Palaeontology 77. Palaeontological Association, London.
  • Bone histology and growth of the prosauropod dinosaur Plateosaurus engelhardti von Meyer, 1837 from the Norian bonebeds of Trossingen (Germany) and Frick (Switzerland). By N. KLEIN and P.M SANDER <-- from the same volume

Other stuff:

  • Yates, A.M. (2007). Solving a dinosaurian puzzle: the identity of _Aliwalia rex_ Galton. Historical Biology. (for the most recent Yates phylogeny... ask Sheep for this if you need it)
  • Yates 2003. The species taxonomy of the sauropodomorph dinosaurs from the Lowenstein Formation (Norian, Late Triassic) of Germany. Palaeontology. (species taxonomy... ask Sheep for it)
  • Prosauropod chapter in the Dinosauria II
  • Moser, M. 2003. _Plateosaurus engelhardti_ Meyer, 1837 (Dinosauria: Sauropodomorpha) aus dem Feuerletten (Mittelkeuper; Obertrias) von Bayern. _Zitteliana_ B 24, 3-186. (monograph on P. engelhardti... hard to find, in German, and 183 pages long... don't ask Sheep for this one see here)
  • Galton 2000 - redescription of type
  • Galton 2001 - species taxonomy (abstract here)
  • others... please add here

[edit] Taxonomy

For the person who has too much time on their hands: scroll to Plateosaurus. Going to the Paleobiology Database and searching on Plateosaurus is also useful. How the names all relate to each other, and the various permutations they've gone through, baffle even the most detail-oriented. J. Spencer 00:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plateosaurus engelhardti

Does Moser (2003) recognize as valid only P. engelhardti? I read that the supposed differences between P. engelhardti and P. longiceps are due to diagenesis.

Moser M. 2003. Plateosaurus engelhardti Meyer, 1837 (Dinosauria: Sauropodomorpha) aus 125 dem Feuerletten (Mittelkeuper, Obertrias) von Bayern. Zitteliana B 24: 188.72.194.116.63 00:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 16.21 26 July 2007