Talk:Piracy/Archive1

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Contents

WikiProject Piracy

A WikiProject has been proposed on List of proposed projects to improve coverage of and focus on both historic and modern periods in Piracy. MadMax 01:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Phrasing

Days of yore? isn't that a little imprecise? chris 00:32, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removed. -EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Miscellany from 2004

Someone moved software piracy, pirate radio, Pittsburgh Pirates, and Tampa Bay Buccaneers from a dignified obscurity at the bottom of this article to the top. Giving top billing to these minor instances of piracy as a figure of speech is out-of-control disambiguation. What next, a disambiguation page like the even sillier Pine? Ortolan88

I moved it, so that I could delete an unneeded 2nd reference to software piracy in the middle of the article without somebody else inevitably adding it back. I think it's a losing battle to relegate the unfortunate term "software piracy" to dignified obscurity.

We're losing ground. What were reasonable cross references have now been purged because they weren't legitimate disambiguation. And we still have the foolish software piracy at the top, even though no one would ever confuse it with sea piracy. This is why I don't like disambiguation. It is mechanistic (and, it seems, militaristic as well). Up tight enforcement of imaginary policies.

First there were pirates, sea robbers as they are called in German. Then there were sports teams, one of them called the Pirates, probably because they stole some games from somebody, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, so called because there used to be pirates in Tampa back in the day and they still make a big deal out of it, with pirate days and the like, and there was pirate radio, which started out at sea (get it?) on anti-aircraft platforms in the English channel, and then the rather milder and less adventurous software piracy, which is stealing other people;s work, though without violence. This was all fine when the article was about sea pirates and the others were cross-referenced at the bottom, now we have on the one hand lost information and on the other raised software piracy ("our kind of piracy") above broadcast piracy and the simple use of the pirate motif in sports. All because someone was frightened of having two links in the same article. As I was saying, very silly. Ortolan88

accuracy of this statement:

The end of widespread conflict in Europe left most of the nations in a dreadful state, especially Spain - its imperial overexpansion had bankrupted the state.
I was under the impression, at least from Euro history, that the money was just squandered...the largesse of the Kings of Spain consumed the gold of the New World
That's accurate. Military expenditures were by far the largest expenditures of governments across Europe at that time.

Peregrine981 18:46, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Resurrecting after User:213.106.17.103

on a sidenote: becoming a pirate was quick to accomplish for some germans in the 20th century. After unconditional surrender May 1945 the Allies declared all german military seamen pirates , who would not immediately fly the black flag instead of the Kriegsmarine flag. The black flag , however, was usually used by pirates only.

Even after reading the preceding comments, I have added the term piracy and its connection to software & copyright to the top again as part of the article. Here's why. The article for piracy is a redirect to this page. If someone is reading about software copyright infringement, for example, and clicks on piracy, they'd come here and see only the sea pirate info and a link to the disambig page. If they go to the disambig page, they could click on software piracy or copyright infringement and get back to an article that has a link to "piracy"... and now we're in a loop. The term "piracy" needs to be called out and defined somewhere--if you want to know what "piracy" is, it would be nice to click on a link and have it defined--which goes back to the origin of the word, which has to do with pirates--AND to have it explained in context, which you can't really do on a redirect page. Does this make sense? I hope that I have written it in such a way that it doesn't feel like a non sequitur. Elf | Talk 00:35, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Etymology of buccaneer

This article states that buccaneer dervies from from boucan, Portugese slang for people of the Caribbean.

However the entry for buccaneer states that is is from the French word boucan, a frame used by the pirates to cure meat

Most sources on the web suggest that the term comes from the French boucanier (i.e. user of a boucan) including the American Heritage Dictionary entry found on dictonary.com and an Online Etymological Dictionary.

According to a French definition of Buccaneer in an etymology of English nautical terms, le mot français boucanier est sa racine. Boucaner signifiait faire griller la viande et la fumer pour la conserver ce que faisaient les pirates des Caraïbes pour conserver leurs vivres (Méthode supposée empruntée aux cannibales locaux !…) - "The French word boucanier is its root. Boucaner means to grill meat and to smoke it for preseervation, as the pirates of the Caribbean did to preserve their food. (The method was presumably borrowed from local cannibals!)"

A definition of bucaneiro on this Brazilian Portuguese page gives the French etymology.

I couldn't find any source for the Portuguese origin as stated here. If boucan is used in the sense of "people of the Caribbean" in Portuguese I imagine this will have stemmed from the French too.

So should this article use the French etymology?

Just to confuse things, One source suggests the name comes from a type of knife used by pirates called a boucan!

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, which generally gets these things right, to say the least, a French word boucan from a Tupi (Brazilian) word buka, which is a wooden frame used to roast meat, what the Haitians called a barbacoa, that is "barbecue". French hunters, known as boucaniers prepared meat in this way. The name was given to pirates "From the habits which these subsequently assumed". So, the article is in error. Ortolan88 15:37, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I favour removing the plot spoiler in the sentence about the Dread Pirate Roberts. --Townmouse 01:32, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

To Peregrine981's statement: I was under the impression, at least from Euro history, that the money was just squandered...the largesse of the Kings of Spain consumed the gold of the New World That's accurate. Military expenditures were by far the largest expenditures of governments across Europe at that time.

Yes, it's true that Spain squandered and that military expenditures were, in general, the largest across Europe. However, to suggest that Spain's overexpansion bankrupted Spain is also not entirely inaccurate. Spain financed their very aggressive expansion policy, as well as their nobles' lavish lifestyle, by the American silver they conquered. This influx of silver drove up the price in Spain, fueling the need for more silver and thus further expansion. The cycle repeated until Spain can no longer secure enough silver to sustain their spending, finally ending in the government's bankrupcy.

Pirates in Popular Culture

I've added a bit more to the 'Arrr matey' section about steriotypical pirate clothing and expressions. I almost think this could have it's own page, just for a bit of fun. --Swamp Ig 06:08, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • I agree. Maybe it should be called cartoon pirates?199.224.81.132 22:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Modern piracy

"Pirate attacks tripled between 1993 and 2003. The first half of 2003 was the worst 6-month period on record, with 234 pirate attacks, 16 deaths, and 52 people injured worldwide. There were also 193 crew members held hostage during this period." -- is there a source available for these statistics?

Pirate Quotes

Apparently some guy changed the quotes, somebody might want to look into it.

Jon hart and jolly jenny

Anon user added this; I cannot find any references in any search engine online so removed it. Can anyone corroborate, or is this another personal in-joke?

Local legends claim that only one pirate still frequents American coastlines. This pirate, who calls himself Jon Hart, is the captain of the Jolly Jenny. Hart, who also refers to himself as "Cap'n Jon" has ravaged the west coast of the United States since 1999 without sight or capture by any law enforcement agency. Many agencies, including the U.S. Coast Guard, disbelieve his existence, claiming that other pirates have taken adventage of the legend.

Elf | Talk 22:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

ARRRRRR.

I removed this

Because it is largely taken from the 'talk like a pirate' page, is factually inacurate, and, to the extent that it is acurate, is not 'pirate expressions', but general shipboard slang. Trollderella 17:21, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Stereotypical piratical expressions

Ahoy (there)!
Along the lines of 'you there'
Arr, (Me/My) Matey
Hello
Swab The Deck
Clean the ship's deck
Arrrrrr!
The onomatopoeia of a pirate, as an exclamation for various different moods. See also arg
Avast!
Stop, take notice.
Blow me down
Expression of surprise (as in being blown off one's feet by a strong gale or a cannonball)
Keelhaul the swabs
Tie the scrubber of the ship's deck to the keel of a boat. Typically the victim would be dragged along the underside of the boat where he would be badly cut by the sharp barnacles.
Shiver me timbers
Expression of surprise (as in having the wooden timbers of one's ship "shivered" by a cannonball, in the archaic sense of the term "shivered")
Yoho(ho)
Greeting
I'll Crush Ye Barnacles!
A pirate threat.
Chock 'a Block
Full; At it's maximum extent. From the situation where the pulleys of a block and tackle are touching.
Afore, Astern, Abeam
towards the front, back, and off to the sides respectively
Port, Starboard
left and right. Marked by red and green navigational colours or lights.
Point
as in "points of the compass". A compass is divided into 32 points - 8 per quadrant. So "three points starboard" is about one-o`clock. Useful for specifying directions on international talk like a pirate day, especially in bars.
Pieces of eight
From the spanish 8 real silver coin, which was sometimes scored into 8 segments to make change. Since the US dollar was originally valued at one of these, in US vernacular "two bits" = 25 cents.

Aye Aye Captain: Sayings by the Seamen when taking an order from the Captain of the Ship.

Har De Har Har! Sarcastic remark.
Yar Har Harrrr Greeting


OK, someone reverted this removal, without explaining why. If there is some reason why you think this is valid, please let me know here, otherwise I will remove it again. Trollderella 15:57, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
I cleaned out a bunch of external links to non-encyclopedic sites. I left the link to Talk Like A Pirate Day and anyone who wants to find out how to say "arrrh" can look it up there. -EDM 19:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
I removed the statement that it is typical in a modern pirate attack to kill everyone aboard the ship since earlier in the article it says 16 people were killed in the first half of 2003, in relation to the 234 attacks this hardly seems typical.- 67.169.170.140 20:37, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Pirates had a positive impact (sometimes)

A recent history channel program enlightened me, noting that pirates also had a positive impact on some of the societies they encountered. They sold tax-free products, (likely stolen products from a recently pillaged village) nonetheless, providing many poverty stricken communities with cheap food, and goods. In turn helping to relieve starvation, and possibly saving many lives. Is this worth mentioning? - R Lee E (talk, contribs) 07:27, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

It would be nice to reference a claim like that, maybe with some specific examples, but I don't see why not. Trollderella 16:44, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, the show I mentioned cited Black Beard as an example. Let me see if I can confirm this on the internet. - R Lee E (talk, contribs) 19:45, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Official Website of Pirates

Rather than search for evidence that the "official website of pirates" was not the official website of pirates—a likely futile attempt to prove a negative—I searched for evidence that it was the official website of pirates, as such evidence would be necessary in order to sustain the inclusion of this link in the article. Conclusion: the registrant of the website is not a pirate, or at least is not described as such in any material accessible to Google. Corollary: the website is unlikely to be an official pirate website. To the proponent of this information: please demonstrate to the community that this is the official website of pirates, with verifiable information that is not self-referential. -EDM 01:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Addendum: Further reasonable deduction: joke or hoax. Conclusion: reference should not appear in an encyclopedia article about actual pirates. -EDM 01:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
This is Capt'n Nezit (Peter Nezit), the creator of OfficialPirates.com. The site is new and lacking in content, but I hope to one day make it the largest consolidated source of pirate information, both humourous and non-fictional. To my knowledge, it is the only site of its kind, and there is no other evidence that would lead that it couldn't be the only official website of pirates, but nonetheless I will refer to it as "self proclaimed" until I can get the site widely acclaimed as the said official site of pirates.

(The personal information was removed due to the fact that the registrar is not the maker of the site and does not want to be associated with this site or its discussion. The registration information has been made private, check for yourself if you have any doubts.)

The thing is, Cap'n, that while your website looks like it will be plenty of fun and all that, it bears about the same relation to the subject of this encyclopedia article as Mickey Mouse does to mice. Riffs on a topic are not an encyclopedic source for information on the topic. -EDM

[To readers who may find the above hard to follow: Cap'n Nezit insists on chopping into comments I've left on this page and deleting portions of them. Doing so leaves the remnants incoherent, and misleadingly makes it seem as though I'd made a statement without support. The original text can be found here. -EDM 06:39, 13 October 2005 (UTC)]

plagerism??

Why is everything on our entry also here? http://www.answers.com/topic/pirate Should I be concerned or is there a legal link I'm not aware of?

devotchka

From Wikipedia:Copyrights:

The license Wikipedia uses grants free access to our content in the same sense as free software is licensed freely. This principle is known as copyleft. That is to say, Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement).

Dsmouse 19:28, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

oct 15 edits

It might be a little obscure, but I added DOOM PIRATE to the list of fictional pirates. He is from a comic that a kid at my school makes. I also made made so that "Maddox" mentioned under the Jack Lumber entry in the fictional pirates section linked to the wikipedia Best Page In the Universe article. I'm going to ask him to make a page on Doom Pirate

Odd References

Perhaps some reference to maddox and flying spaghetti monsterism, or perhaps even spongebob squarepants would help people assess the pop-culture meaning of the word 'Pirate'. Googling "Doom Pirate" also returns this page, so i deleted that reference 195.172.220.162 14:20, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

The Black faces beneath black flags

Pirates, as many people know, sailed under a black flag. What the general public doesn't know, however, is that many pirates were as Black as the flags they flew.

In my new novel Kingston by Starlight (Three Rivers Press/Crown Publishing) I tell a fictionalized version of the true story of Anne Bonny, a woman who dressed as a man in the early 1700s, became a pirate, and was put on trial for her alleged crimes in 1721.

In my novel I speculate about the ties she might have had to Africans in her family tree. I also weave into my story some true tales of pirates of African heritage.

Pirates were an important, integral part of the international scene during the late 17th and early 18th century. Anyone who took a sea voyage, anyone who sent cargo by boat, anyone who worked on board a floating vessel, had to worry about pirate attacks. Nations employed pirates to prey on the shipping of other nations. Pirates inspired numerous books and plays and songs. Pirates became symbols — not only of living outside the law, but of freedom, bought at a high cost and lived on one's own terms.

It became imperative, then, for the established powers of the European world to conceal the fact that many pirates were in fact people of color. It would have caused havoc if slaves knew that freedom was just offshore, riding the waves, flying a black flag.

Some of these Black pirates were, in part, mythic. The Fomorian pirates, some of the first people to make war on Ireland and to settle some of its lands, were of African descent — they are talked about in the myths and lore of Ireland.

But many other Black pirates were definitely flesh and blood. Kenneth J. Kinkor, a historian with the Whydah Project, which is examining the wreck of a pirate ship, has reported that perhaps 30 percent of the 5,000 or more pirates who were active between 1715 and 1725 were of African heritage.

Some of the most famous pirates in history were either Black or had a significant number of Blacks in their crews. Blackbeard was the most feared pirate of the early 18th century — and 60 of his 100 crewmen were Black. Laurens de Graff was considered the most successful pirate of the 17th century — and he was actually a runaway slave of African heritage. There are many more examples: Captain Kidd's quartermaster was Black, for example, and many pirate bases were located in North Africa.

Some historians have suggested that if there were Blacks on pirate crews, they may have been working as servants or slaves. But pirates tended to defy the traditions of their times, and there are enough examples of Black pirates actually leading pirate ships — like de Graff — to suggest that many Blacks successfully secured freedom, and positions of power and influence, on pirate vessels.

The Black community has often been told by society at large that it is wrong to glorify outlaws. Blues musicians were criticized in their day for flouting society's conventions. Hip-hop performers have been harassed for challenging cultural mores. And yet, in the larger community, renegades and rebels are often put on pedestals, from Robin Hood to Billy the Kid to Eminem.

White pirates, in books such as Treasure Island and movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean, are portrayed not as hateful criminals, but as lovable rogues, capable of cruelty, but also somehow admirable, even lovable. Digital pirates are hunted by corporations and prosecutors, but are embraced as heroes by youth culture. There is often something good to be found in people who are willing to fight the power.

In my novel Kingston by Starlight, I try to reclaim Black history. Pirates were often rogues, yes, but there is something in their willingness and ability to challenge the legal authorities of their time that is worth embracing, even celebrating.

In the 17th and 18th century, many people of African heritage were in bondage. Piracy represented a way out, and a way to challenge the very system that made slavery possible. In Kingston by Starlight, I tell stories of the early days of the Bahamas, and the last days of Port Royal, Jamaica. I write of pirate states in North Africa, and of pirate raids in South America. These are stories that aren't told in the history books in school. These are stories of blood and fire and emotion. This is outlaw history, but it is our history. And it is a history worth remembering.

Kingston by Starlight will be published in July. Frank McCourt, author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning book "Angela's Ashes," called it "superbly poetic," and Essence magazine picked it as one of the three best beach reads of the summer.

By Christopher John Farley, Special to the AmNews

Source: The Black faces beneath black flags, By: Farley, Christopher John, New York Amsterdam News, 00287121, 7/7/2005, Vol. 96, Issue 28

I'm not certain where to incorporate some of this information. Adraeus 01:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Very little of what's there is encyclopedic—the writer expressly says it's fictional and speculative—but maybe some of it could go in the Pirate organization section. The figures would need to be verified. Kenneth Kinkor is a genuine historian [1] and the author, apparently, of Black Men Under the Black Flag but this newspaper article or book promotion or whatever it is isn't a good source. -EDM 07:23, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the writer expresses that his novel is fictional and speculative, in which he includes true tales of pirates with African heritage, which he goes on to describe. Adraeus 01:30, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
So its bad to say that illegal acts are wrong?

--Eno-Etile 08:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Somali piracy

Modern piracy can also be for political reasons. For example, warlords in Somalia have sabotaged the delivery of UN food aid to over half a million hungry people in the region [2].

This may be true (if a bit POV) but it isn't really what the article says. This is the relevant portion of the article:

Piracy off Somalia threatens shipping and has sabotaged the delivery of food aid to more than half a million hungry people in the region, the United Nations said on Thursday. Hijackers have commandeered two vessels used by the U.N. World Food Programme this year and ship owners now demand armed escorts to travel in the waters, the agency said. This week, the London-based International Maritime Bureau said it knew of 27 pirate attacks off Somalia since March. The attacks have highlighted insecurity in Somalia, which has had no government to enforce law and order since warlords ousted dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.

Piracy off the coast of Somalia is interfering with UN food deliveries, but is there a source confirming that the pirates are acting for political motives as opposed to simply the usual economic ones? -EDM 18:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Rewritten as part of a larger rewrite. -EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

"Captain Pottengal Mukundan of the ICC's International Maritime Bureau (IMB) - whose organization manages the Piracy Reporting Centre - says the latest attacks raise a number of serious concerns.

'In addition to the obvious threat to human life and potential environmental damage, we are very concerned about politically motivated attacks against vessels.'" [3] I agree that the original quote doesn't directly support political piracy, but piracy can definitely happen for political reasons. Tkessler 21:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) has recorded more than 30 attacks on cargo and passenger ships in Somalian waters recorded between Jan and September 2005.

Placement of "Modern Piracy" section

The truth is that modern piracy…is a violent, bloody, ruthless practice…made the more fearsome by the knowledge on the part of the victims that they are on their own and absolutely defenceless and that no help is waiting just round the corner. Captain Jayant Abhyankar, Deputy Director of the International Maritime Bureau

I have first hand knowledge of piracy. The reason I moved modern piracy to the top is because I found it irritating (to say the least) to be searching for info on modern piracy and see all the silly, cartoon pirates. Imagine after being mugged searching for info and finding an article about street crime starting with Robin Hood. Check out William Langewiesche, The Outlaw Sea: A World of Freedom, Chaos, and Crime. As for as the romance angle the people being killed today, ( and probably in the past) are common sailors, many from developing countries. I think it better for someone looking for a picture of a cute pirate to have to go through the modern material first rather then vice-versa. . However there may be a good argument for keeping it the way it was.... Also can anyone locate a picture of a modern pirate? KAM 19:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

  • CNN has this AP picture of the pirates attacking the Seabourn Spirit the other day. Too bad it's copyrighted. -EDM 20:14, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I completely agree that all the cartoon pirates, pirate jokes, etc. ought to be at the end of the article and their content minimized compared to actual information about actual piracy, historical and modern. My thought as expressed in my edit summary was just that it made sense to have historical information first. If I were organizing this article from scratch I'd place the "Modern Piracy" section either immediately before or immediately after the section called "Piracy in International Law." -EDM 19:47, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, it would make sense to have some historical info first. I guess I lost it when I saw the cartoon and just hacked away. KAM 19:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Reordered as part of a larger rewrite. -EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I suggest moving all maritime piracy information to maritime piracy, which I'm working on. Pirate should be about pirates and not necessarily about maritime piracy. Adraeus 04:02, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

That make sense to me. A pirate in popular culture etc could be at pirate and historic and current info about piracy could be at Maritime piracy KAM 15:01, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't agree. The pirate article, as it is now, needs to be cleaned up. The information contained within pirate is embarassingly unlearned and "playful", and some of the information simply doesn't even belong in the article. Pirate should discuss the role of pirates throughout history, which is extensive enough to separate the fictional pirates section to an article named appropriately, like pirates in fiction. Maritime piracy will concern the act of maritime piracy throughout history, not pirates. Adraeus 05:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Adraeus and KAM - Why should the main "Pirate" article be turned into a compendium of cartoons, pirate jokes, Ninja crap, and the like? You know that is what will happen if this is broken into two articles as you're suggesting, with the real information about real piracy relegated to an article with a more complicated (= less likely to be searched on) title. Sending everything in the first place to a "piracy" dab page, which would be the only way to avoid that, is cumbersome. Also, would a maritime piracy article exclude information on air piracy? That doesn't seem to make much sense, since the two are essentially the same activity just carried out in different milieus.
I suggest, instead, to rename this page to "Piracy"; expand and improve the treatment of maritime and air piracy, both historic and current; trim the popular culture cartoon stuff back so that information about stereotypical pirate conceptions is there but is reasonably balanced against factual, historical information; be vigilant against efforts to add juvenilia to that section; and fix the Pirate (disambiguation) page accordingly. -EDM 17:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
*sigh* If you want to discuss the maritime piracy article, do it here. Otherwise, don't expect attention to premature complaints and answers to newbie questions. Adraeus 05:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Huh? -EDM 05:41, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
  1. If you had done any research on the subject (or even read the IMO's definition), you would know not to ask if maritime piracy will discuss "air piracy".
  2. "Maritime piracy" is the proper professional and academic term used when referring to criminal acts of piracy and armed robbery at sea or in air.
  3. Whether maritime piracy receives any direct hits is justifiably unimportant.
  4. Disambiguation pages are never "cumbersome". That's why those pages are disambiguation pages! See the definition
  5. Only encyclopedic data and information is valid for inclusion in Wikipedia. Invalid data and information should be removed. See Wikipedia:Guide to deletion.
  6. There are many articles in Wikipedia that separate the "career" from the "activity". For example, artist versus art. There are many types of pirates, and many histories of those types of pirates, and there's a significant amount of information about the role of pirates in the history. Why is actual encyclopedic information about pirates nearly disregarded in the pirate article? I don't know, and I almost don't care. I haven't volunteered to edit the article. Have you? Adraeus 06:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Adraeus 06:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Oh for God's sakes. Get off your high horse. I'm trying to clean up the damn article, as and when I can. -EDM 06:38, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Pirate jokes

Not that anons are likely going to read this talk page before adding more jokes, but if they do ... please, folks, put pirate jokes in the Pirate jokes article, not this one. It's there for just that purpose. -EDM 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

ARGH!

ARGH!

earrings

There's apparently no evidence that pirates wore earrings more than anyone else. I put a note about this in, and it seems to have been reverted. Was this done deliberately or accidentally? If the later, I'll fix it again; if the former, could someone explain why? NoahB 20:55, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

other terms

In the "Other Terms for Pirates" section it has a word in Arabic. Not to be nit-picky, but this is the English article, and while it may be novel to see the word written in Arabic, it's not the slightest bit useful. I'm fine with leaving that there, but an English transliteration would be very much appreciated, and be useful to people other than the tiny minority of Arabic speakers who might read this article for reference. -- Freshyill 03:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Transliteration now added. It might be helpful to also do the Arabic script is a slightly larger font, as in its current size it is almost impossible for non-Arabic readers to even identify the letters being used. Once I figure out how to do that, I'll test it out. Su 20:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Jokes

I noticed the following had been added to the end of the privateering section:

"There has been a resurgence of privateering in recent years in the Throggs Neck area of New York."

Funny? Yes, but not appropriate. :) --24.47.145.73 06:00, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

River piracy?

Is the term "piracy" applied to riverboat robbery? If yes, then can someone add a small section.

The question popped up in relation to a Russian historical robber, Stenka Razin. An anon editor added him to List of pirates. Traditionally he was not called "pirate" in Russian, simply "robber" (razboinik), so I deleted him from the list. So the second question is whether I was right. `'mikka (t) 18:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Pirate organization

Hello - new Wikipedian here. I would like to clean up the section 'Pirate organization' a bit.

- It doesn't make it clear which time period we are discussing as the 'classical age of piracy': C17th, or later? The section on Caribbean piracy is from 1560 up until the 1720s; but the section on privateers goes up to 1854.

- 'England's imperial reign' is OK for pre-1707, but needs clarification, maybe. 'English empire' comes up with no hits on Wikipedia, the info is listed under 'British Empire'.

- 'English captains were known to have been extremely brutal; the captain held a sort of sovereign power aboard his ship and many were unafraid to abuse that power. It is thought that the service of an English sailor during England's imperial reign is the most inhumane of all wartime duties to date.' Is there evidence that conditions on English warships and merchant vessels in this period were substantially more autocratic and brutal than on French, Dutch etc.? If so, citations please.

- 'The most inhumane of all wartime duties to date' I would like to delete this (it's unprovable), or at least provide a reference for the opinion.

Drafting new version... please let me know if you have comments...

Lindisfarne 18:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't have specific sources to hand, but the first part of the section seems about right for the latter half of the 17th Century. Once we get into the stuff about Imperialism I get a strong feeling that NPOV just got thrown out of the window. And, again, no specific sources, but the author seems to have the normal, and inaccurate, pop-culture images of a seaman's life. For instance, the Naval press gangs in Britain wwere only supposed to impress seamen. (Details of some of this are already in Wikipedia) Zhochaka 22:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ancient Piracy

Why don't you add some info about the Ancient Pirates - the Illyrians pirateered the Roman Adriatic Sea. There was also a fierce Serbian pirateering tribe - Pagania. --HolyRomanEmperor 13:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you add some info? garik 23:33, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Pirates in sports

I think we should remove pirates in high schools and middle school sports, there are probably thousands and thousands and the list will grow to ridiculous proportions. I'm even worried about colleges, I can think of a few just off hand. Thoughts? --Awiseman 00:39, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

One eye sees better than two?

"Eyepatch wearing also would have been convenient for seeing in poorly lit conditions, and pirates of old may have done this to help see below deck." This is totally beyond me. Any reference to medical fact to support this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by O'Donnell (talk • contribs)

The covered eye would have increased in dark-sensitivity.Minglex 21:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
aye... try it yourself... wear an eyepatch all day, then, after dark, switch which eye the patch is over... I think Bill Nye taught us about that about 20 years ago... ;) - Adolphus79 21:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
The Mythbusters on Discovery Cannel tested this myth. Mythbusters verdict: CONFIRMED. Nick31091 02:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Excessive Detail

I understand that it's the goal of an encyclopedia to be as impartial and informative as possible, but this article is simply riddled with laughable, unprofessional details. Why is it necessary to include every highschool with a pirate mascot? Clearly there are thousands. Also, is it necessary to reference obscure internet cartoons? Perhaps a new article should be created dealing with "Pirates in Modern Culture". This would make sense, as i dont know of anyone who would read through an encylopedia hoping to find cartoon pirate jokes on the internet...O'Donnell 13:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It is a very large article. Maybe the lists (Pirates in sports, Pirates in popular culture, etc.) should each be moved to separate list articles. Or maybe they should be dropped altogether. Aardvark92 21:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Considering who the main users of Wikipedia are, I think the references to pirates would be one of the key components of this article. They should not be dropped and creating a seperate article is beneficial.

How much does an ear of corn cost in Beloit, WI?

Added the Beloit Buccanneers to the college sports mascots.

International law

Article says "The crime of piracy is considered jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Isn't that backwards? As it currently reads, it says that "piracy is considered a norm" and/or "the crime is considered jus cogens", which is contrary to the definition. I believe it should read "The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm from which states may not derogate." Derek Balsam 01:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

actual pictures

Are there any pictures of actual real life pirates? sikander 03:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Lame Pictures

Some of the pictures on this article are pretty lame. The cartoon one is featured for some reason so I guess it's gunan stay for some reason, but the one of an actor protraying a pirate has got to go. If you must have a picture of an actor, why not one who dresses liek a pirate? I don't recall any pirates wearing white face paint and having cartoon eyes. A picture from Hook or Pirates of the Carribean might be a little more relevant. Reignbow 21:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Done Weird Bird 08:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

the acuracy of this page

this page needs to have a notice saying it needs to be cleaned up, i found many things that were not true such as pirates pierced their ear lobes with rings to supposedly increase vision

Please fix what you think is wrong. --Awiseman 21:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Too much popular culture

I really don't think we need to mention every band, book, movie, story, etc that mentions pirates - there have to be thousands. Maybe a few well-known examples of each? --Awiseman 21:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Or if we're going to have a list at all, make it a separate article. Then this one can stick to information about actual pirates. Aardvark92 15:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure we really need a list article either, really. --Awiseman 16:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally I don't really care one way or the other. But since a lot of people seem to want to add their favorite reference, I'm not prepared to just delete them all without an opportunity for discussion.
Which leads to the question: Can someone give a reason they think the whole list of pop culture pirate references is needed? Aardvark92 18:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, I don't think it is. I tagged them all with cleanup. --Awiseman 20:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


That has to be seriously the lamest part of the whole article. Can we get rid of the piratical stereotypes, or at least put it in sentance form. It is like reading a 10 year old's list of bullet points after he watched a pirate movie. It is the most retarded thing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Nick

I agree with Nick. The pirate stereotypes have no place in a serious article about piracy. I've sent the entire list to Davy Jones' locker. Aardvark92 22:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Moved list of fictional pirates to its own article, per above discussion. Aardvark92 19:47, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Too many links

Is it really necessary to link so many words? It doesn't help readability.

For example, in this paragraph:

The Latin term pirata, from which the English "pirate" is derived, derives ultimately from Greek peira "attack, attempt", cognate to peril. By the 1st century BC, there were pirate states along the Anatolian coast, threatening the commerce of the Roman Empire.

Latin, English, Greek, Anatolian, and Roman Empire are all HTML links. Is this really necessary?

If it is necessary to link to a definition of so many terms, why aren't commerce, peril, states, ultimately, derives and threatening also linked?

I can understand linking to Anatolian, and to a lesser degree Roman Empire. But wouldn't somebody who didn't know what Latin, Greek or English meant be able to look those up? Somebody reading the English version should at least be able to understand what "English" means without needing a link.


Modern pirates in the Mediterranean Sea

This is noted in the introduction of the article. This seems odd to me, any reference for this? Also wouldn't it be a good idea to include some more pictures in the article (instead of the twice the same Jolly Roger image...), maybe of modern pirates of the coast of western Africa or Strait of Malacca. 217.121.193.200 15:17, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Has anyone come across any evidence of modern-day piracy in the Mediterranean? If not, this reference should be revised/deleted. lamato 18:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

In popular culture - moved

I'd moved all popular culture references into article of ots own: Pirates in popular culture. This is common strategy to deal with such information and keep the main article focused. For many examples see Category:In popular culture.

The (non-popular-references) external links should be pruned down. Pavel Vozenilek 21:37, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

pirate homosexuality

There is evidence, still controversial, that some famous pirate bands were in fact homosexuals living free outside normal social constraints. It would make sense to at least mention this somewhere in the article. -- M0llusk 00:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Structure

the ancient piracy stuff didn't belong in the introduction, but rather it's own section, and since everyone will bitch if I dont dicusss it on the talk page, here you go! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dharmabatteries (talk • contribs)

vandels

this was under Commerce raiders

Aaron also likes to look at his mama Aaron likes to look at men. fixed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.246.213.116 (talk) 22:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC).