Talk:Pinochle
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[edit] Scoring
Aren't runs worth 15, a pinochle 4, four aces worth 10, and so on?
As mentioned in the article, the scores are often divided by ten because the last zero is redundant.
I added this to double-deck section, also meld bidding.--Buckboard 08:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the scoring system doesn't need to be duplicated in the double-deck section? --Ashawley 01:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The double deck section has the scoring explanation removed and unduplicated. --71.161.219.150 22:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
there are many different ways to score. such as runs are 19, 20 with the nine. open bid at 25, marriage worth 2, 4 if trump. pinochle is 4, double is 30.
[edit] Resolving duplicate cards
When two copies of the same card are played in the same trick who wins the trick?
Typically the highest card played first takes precendence.
First played is always the rule. That's what makes taking your opponent's ace of trump so sweet. IMO more fun than over-trumping.--Buckboard 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] More players?
There is mention in the introductoin about five and six player games, but no accompanying explanation later in the article.
This is mentioned in the article in the "Five-handed and larger Pinochle" and the "Racehorse Pinochle" sections.
[edit] Question on the "Playing Tricks" section
There is one method here mentioned that is not typical to the version of Pinochle that I am familiar with. i.e. Leading with trump. Is there any external verification to ensure that this is the standard of play? If it cannot be verified is there a way that we can include a statement suggesting that leading with trump or not are simply two different ways to play? Thanks. ~Rymnel~
Agreed--I have never played this way, nor is it in my edition of Hoyle. Trump is declared by the bid winner, and strategy is the key to the game. The object is to play to your strength, which may vary from hand to hand (i.e. lots of trump, or lots of aces, or short-suited) and to get through to your partner for tricks after playing out your leads. That makes playing trump as the first lead not only pointless but frankly much less fun.--Buckboard 08:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm quite convinced that there is no standard way to play. There are merely more and less common variants. I agree that I have also never heard of requiring trump as the first lead. In fact, the whole "Playing Tricks" section is notably divergent from my own posted rules set. I'll make some edits to reflect alternative models of play. Snarke 19:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Bunch?
My family has used a sort of back-up option for if none of the players have a good enough hand to play. We allow the first player to choose if they want to bid, and before the first bid, any player is allowed to call "Bid or Bunch" which means that they may bid if someone else does, or if the rest of the players say either "bid or bunch" or pass, then the hand is thrown in and the next hand is dealt. We also increased the minimum bid to 25 (or 250 depending on method of scoring). I wonder if anyone else has ever played this way, or if it is a family modification. Thanks --Emily
Curious variant. However we have always played "cut-throat"--which means if you're the dealer and everyone passes, you'd better be able to declare trump (marriage in trump suit). Making tricks or going set is always problematical when the bid is "dumped on" you!--Buckboard 08:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Separate pages?
Would it be easier to try and reorganize a lot of the information on this site into seperate pages? For instance, have one page specifically for two handed variations, another for three handed, four handed, etc. And include single and double deck underneath each. Just a thought, as there's several variations on the main page. Uzerzero 01:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I think someday that reorganization would make it easier for readers to use the page, and that would make this article just be a short summary of the game. Unfortunately, each separate article would duplicate the basic information about Pinochle--decks, betting. That would make them harder to maintain. But I think this page will stabilize at some point in the future and allow us to do just what you've suggested. --71.161.218.197 00:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
What about splitting off the section to separate pages, now? The article has changed a lot since July 2006.[1] --Ashawley 04:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Dealing options
In the version I have played, the dealer is allowed to deal in groups of three, four, five so long as all players get the same number of cards on a given round of the deal. Here are some of the options: 3-3-3-3-3 or 4-4-4-3 / 4-3-4-4 etc or 5-5-5. The 5-5-5 option is generally employed only near the end of a close game.Watercat77 19:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Question on Racehorse
The deal of 20 per player and 4 in the blind calls for a deck of 124 cards. Since the standard double deck is 80, what additional cards are included for six players? Are there two teams of three players each? -- 69.153.27.57
I can't find an actual reference for the variation called Racehorse Pinochle in three relatively modern playing card books:
- U.S. Play Card Company's Offical Rules of Card Games. 90th edition.
- Frey's According to Hoyle.
- Scarne on Cards, 1965.
I think "Racehorse" is just a variation of six-hand. Some Web sites suggest it's a variation that allows card passing by the bid winner. I don't know.
The six-handed games I read in those sources suggest using a triple pack and dealing 16 or 12, not 20. --71.169.128.3 01:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Opening Bid
I have never played where the dealer opens at 150. The rule is the player to the dealers left starts (or passes) and the lowest bid cannot be less than 250.
I've generally played low bid no lower than 250 and understand that to be the rule. But have participated under house rules where the bid is 'dropped' on the dealer for 200 or 150. - swp
[edit] Passing Cards
I have never played the version stated here. What I have played is the one where the bidder declares trump, the partner chooses four cards to pass, then the bidder chooses four cards to pass back.
We refer to these variations as 'peak' and 'no peak' In the Upper-mid West 'no peak' is the standard and 'peak' is the variant. In the Southwest 'peak' is the standard and 'no peak' is the variant. - swp
Also a 3 card pass is standard in the Upper-mid West where a 4 card pass is more common in the Southwest. I have no experience with the New England game. - swp
[edit] December 2006 changes
A lot of contributions have been made this month to the article, some more speculative than others and some more helpful than others, but I've tried cleaning them up just now. Try viewing the diff from November 7, 2006 to today, it may give a substantive synopsis of what's changed recently. Happy editing, --75.69.1.233 01:47, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Idea for picture
I have an idea for a picture for this article. How about a photograph of a decent Pinochle hand, or perhaps a bunch of melds laid out. The Euchre article has the best hand shown in a picture. --75.68.201.229 20:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Pinochle variant in Turkey
In Turkey we're playing a variant of Pinochle, which I couldn't find anywhere in wikipedia. The difference is, there're 96 cards (4 times 24 deck), can be played only with 2 players, each player has a hand with 9 cards, non-trump run is also awarded. For counting the points we're using a wooden counter special for this game.
There's one more variant of this game, which is played by 3 players, with 80 cards (4 times 24 deck without nines). Each player has a hand of 25 cards, and 5 cards are kept closed until the end of bidding.
Is there anyone who knows if these games are also played in other countries? Is there any english name for these card games? iyigun 17:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 3 hand double deck 5 card kitty
I was prison where I learned to play this version prefered for gambling for inmates. As it is 2 players against 1. I cannot find any information about it. Please help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.139.179.67 (talk) 19:46, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I enjoy playing this type of pinochle as well. Do you have any particular question about the variation? Or are you just wondering why it's not included? Jamie L.talk 04:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Double-Deck Four-Handed Blind Pinochle
[edit] Setup
Here is a variation of pinochle that we use in our household. It creates quite an interesting game.
We use two decks of pinochle cards (96 cards, 4 of each variety of card, numbered 9-A).
[edit] Dealing Order
| Round | To Player | To Blind |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 3 | 0 |
| 2 | 4 | 1 |
| 3 | 4 | 1 |
| 4 | 4 | 1 |
| 5 | 4 | 1 |
| 6 | 4 | 0 |
| total | 23 | 4 |
[edit] Bidding
We start the bidding out at 35, until all pass to the highest bidder. The winner of the bid calls trump. The only requirement for making trump is that you must have some in your hand.
[edit] Bidder Picks up Blind
After trump is called, and before melds are made, the bidder gets the blind, showing everyone what the blind is.
[edit] Melding
Melding begins using the following table:
[edit] Meld Possibilities
| Cards | X1 | X2 | X3 | X4 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Run (A,10,K,Q,J of trump) | 15 | 150 | 500 | --- |
| Royal Marriage (K,Q of trump) | 4 | 30 | 60 | 240 |
| Dix (9 of trump) | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |
| Common Marriage (K,Q off suit) | 2 | 4 | 6 | 8 |
| Pinochle (J♦,Q♠) | 4 | 30 | 90 | 360 |
| Aces Around (A♠,A♣,A♥,A♦) | 10 | 100 | 500 | --- |
| Kings Around (K♠,K♣,K♥,K♦) | 8 | 80 | 400 | 500 |
| Queens Around (Q♠,Q♣,Q♥,Q♦) | 6 | 60 | 300 | 500 |
| Jacks Around (J♠,J♣,J♥,J♦) | 4 | 40 | 200 | 500 |
| Round Robin (K♠,Q♠,K♣,Q♣,K♥,Q♥,K♦,Q♦) |
26 | 260 | 500 | --- |
If "Round Robin" is used, cannot count the "Kings Around", "Queens Around", or "Marriages" used for "Round Robin". But if another "Kings Around", "Queens Around", or "Marriages" the double amount may be used for the additional type of cards. Also the "Run" includes a Royal Marriage, but if an additional Royal Marriage is held it can count for a double.
[edit] Meld Example
- K♠,K♠,Q♠,K♣,K♣,Q♣,K♥,K♥,Q♥,K♦,K♦,Q♦ = (K♠,Q♠,K♣,Q♣,K♥,Q♥,K♦,Q♦) (
K♠,K♣,K♥,K♦,K♠,K♣,K♥,K♦) = "Round Robin" + Double "Kings Around" = 26 + 80 = 106 - A♠,10♠,K♠,K♠,Q♠,Q♠,J♠ = (A♠,10♠,K♠,Q♠,J♠) (
K♠,Q♠,K♠,Q♠) = "Run" + Double "Royal Marriage" = 15 + 30 = 45 - A♠,10♠,K♠,K♠,Q♠,Q♠,Q♠,J♠,J♦,J♦,J♦ = (A♠,10♠,K♠,Q♠,J♠) (
K♠,Q♠,K♠,Q♠) (Q♠,Q♠,Q♠,J♦,J♦,J♦) = "Run" + Double "Royal Marriage" + Triple "Pinochle" = 15 + 30 + 90 = 135 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.227.185.163 (talk) 04:33, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Returning Cards to the Blind
After the meld is laid down, but before the meld is scored, bidder must secretly discard four cards to the "blind", they cannot be trump. If the bidder has all less than four cards elgible cards in his hand, the bidder must forfeit some points on the table to discard the remaining cards.
[edit] Play Begins
Bidder starts play each player must try to beat the highest card on the table, if player does not have a card in the suit that was led, he must play trump, if he is out of trump, he may play any card he wants.
[edit] Hand Exhausted
After play is completed, player who gets last trick gets the four cards thrown in the "blind".
[edit] Trick Points Added
Points are then added from tricks and "blind" based on the following:
| Card | Points |
|---|---|
| A's | 1 |
| 10's | 1 |
| K's | 1 |
| Last Trick | 2 |
| Total Possible | 50 |
[edit] Penalties Incurred
If one team recieves no trick points, that team cannot count their meld and the opposing team receives another 50 points for a total of 100 points.
If bidder does not make the bidded amount when adding meld to trick points, the bidder receives no points for the round and, actually, loses the amount bidded as a penalty for over-bidding.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.227.185.163 (talk) 03:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
