Talk:Phi Sigma Sigma/Archive01

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

VfD

Instead of the VfD this should've been reverted to the last entry where there wasn't a copyvio. This article in and of itself was not started as a copyvio so why the VfD? Is it that hard to just do a revert? Save people the trouble and if there is a copyvio why don't you just take the time and fix it? This article should have never been VfD in the first place. --Dysepsion 03:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

"Secrets"

Some members of Phi Sigma Sigma would apparantly like to keep handshake and motto information secret, but this is irrelevant - desire for secrecy will not and should not keep information off of Wikipedia. Protection for this article has been requested until the vandalism stops. 68.8.58.109 00:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Considering "secrets" are inherently NOT verifiable per Wikipedia's policy, you have a very very moot point. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 00:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps if you'd discussed your desire to have this information up here instead of just reverting it protection would not have to be requested and declined. In anycase what is the point of having the "secret" on the page? Really, unless you're a part of the organization it has no effect on you and shouldn't matter in anycase. I'm a part of another organization and don't really give two cents about their policies or secrets but to the people in them they are symbolic and mean something to them personally and for that I think they deserve a little more respect than to have a reversion war. My best advice would be to have discussion beforehand. In anycase how do you know that those are truely Phi Sigma Sigma's handshake and motto, do you have citation or sources that would pass WP:V and WP:RS? A wikipedia article should not contain information that cannot be verified. Thanks --ImmortalGoddezz 00:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

First, the entire article is unverified. Second, this editor is not calling anything a "secret" and does not consider it to be secret information. You'll have to bite the bullet on this one. 68.8.58.109 00:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Unverified? Why don't you actually look at the Phi Sigma Sigma Sigma website? --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 00:48, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
With regards to the LITP / "Love in the Pyramid" claim, see the following websites for evidence:
http://www.linfield.edu/greek/chapters/index.php?module=photoalbum&PHPWS_Album_id=5&PHPWS_Photo_op=view&PHPWS_Photo_id=138
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=24859&page=4
http://books.dreambook.com/pssdeltazeta/main.html
http://www.quphisig.org/
http://www.bloomphisig.com/
http://www.myspace.com/78188109
That first photo really says it all, doesn't it girls? 68.8.58.109 00:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
First one? So there's a heart in the pyramid. The others mention LITP, but do not explain explicitly what it is so it could mean anything, perhaps it does mean "Love in the pyramid" perhaps it doesn't. Quite honestly the only one that straight out says "Love in the Pyramid" is the myspace page and that does not meet wikipedia verifiability criteria. Please read over WP:V and WP:RS Thanks. --ImmortalGoddezz 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Why are you referencing message boards and even a myspace account for info? They are not verifiable sources per Wikipedia's policy. Secret mottos, handshakes etc for any fraternity and sorority never last on Wikipedia because who's to say that they are the correct "secrets" in the first place? They can't be found anywhere else. They never fall in the realm of verifiable information and are seen as "original research" which is also against Wikipedia's policy. If anything, page protection should be to stop editors like you who seem to be bent on constantly changing this article. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 01:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The Greekchat page contains a message from 2002 that uses "Love in the Pyramid" to sign correspondence! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.58.109 (talk • contribs)
And so? For all we know that could just be a casual greeting they use and not a motto, secret phrase, password, etc. That's what verification is for. Until you have a valid verifiable source that follows WP:V and WP:RS we don't really know for sure. And like Dysepsion said the only places that things like these are usually found are on social sites and the reason those are not verifiable is because I could go to greekchat.com and say 'omgz lolz Phi Sigma Sigma's secret motto is one for all and all for the sphinx' Just because it's said on a site like that doesn't make it true. --ImmortalGoddezz 01:21, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I thought i should put my two cents in on this issue. The information (handshake, etc.) should not be added to this article. The purpose of fraternal societies is to bind their members in lasting brotherhood/sisterhood. Thus there are certain rights and privledges afforded those who are initated into that organization to make it that much special. The info in question, by its nature, seems to be of the nature that should be safegaurded. Not doing so would violate the bonds of the members of the organization (in this case Phi Sigma Sigma). There is a reason why particular information of fraternities/sororities do not last long on wiki, mainly becuase that information does not need to be made public. It might be interesting, but truthfully why would i need to know the ritual of sigeps or the grip of FSS? Its unecessary information and it violates the core of the that particular organization. Stop trying to add this info please. Samwisep86 06:43, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a horribly irrelevant argument! Wikipedia is completely blind to "the bonds of the members of [an] organization," nor does it care about protecting "certain rights and priviledges [sic] afforded those... to make it... special." If some organization doesn't want their "secrets" known, they ought to take attempt to get an injunction against whoever is posting this information, a court order requiring them to stop. Unless this is possible, Phi Sigma Sigma had better realize that the only thing they can do to stop the revelation of their "secrets" is to flap their arms and whine. 68.107.91.227 19:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Did you not read the part where "secrets" are inherently unverifiable and thus in violation of Wikipedia's original research policy? WP:V OR did you just happen to overlook that and pick and choose your own argument? --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 19:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It's apparent by what you left on my talk page that you are are editing this article with ill intentions and for your own personal agenda --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 20:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Having just read your user talk page comment I believe that we need some intervention here. Is there anyway to get a mod to look into this. Either to protect the page, warn the person, etc.? Obviously discussion isn't working. --ImmortalGoddezz 20:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Semi protection

I semiprotected the page due to this edit war. To the anon: you have no leg to stand on with attempting to put in unverifiable "secrets" into the page, read the verification and reliable sources links that were post for you previously. To the other editors: you have handled this very well and kept cool. For future reference, page protection can be requested at WP:RFPP. Teke (talk) 16:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your assistance!--Samwisep86 18:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

First Non-sectarian Sorority

Edit for "Frist Non-sectarian Sorority"- They were founded AFTER Delta Theta Tau. DTT was founded in 1903 and was non-sectarian. I believe that makes them first. So, I added the word "collegiate" to it, because I believe that mnakes it more accurate. They are not the first non-sectarian sorority by a long shot, but are perhaps the first college one.Eelmonkey

First, Eelmonkey, you are absolutely correct, Phi Sigma Sigma is not the FRIST Non-Sectarian Sorority, it is the FIRST Non-sectarian Sorority. Delta Theta Tau is recongnized by neither the NPC (The National Panhellenic Conference), which is the umbrella organization for National Sororities and Women's Fraternities, nor by the NPHC, (National Pan-Hellenic Council) which is the umbrella organization consisting of the nine traditionally African-American Fraternities and Sororities. Just because an organization chooses to call itself a sorority and use greek letters does not mean that it is a sorority. The members of the NPC and NPHC have strict standards for its member organizations, and their members, which separates the member groups from other Greek Letter Organizations. There are many local sororities, which I am sure have long standing lovely traditions, but do not have the level of record keeping and standards as the members of the NPC and the NPHC.
Further, there is an error in the page regarding the national song. While the information regarding "The Hymn" is correct in that it was written, by Pearl S. Lippman, and her husband Arthur, and was at one time Phi Sigma Sigma's national song, this is no longer the case. The Official Hymn of Phi Sigma Sigma is called "Liebestraum". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phisigbecca (talk • contribs)

response to unsigned/PhiSigBecca

I believe you are incorrect in your statements about the NPC not recognizing Delta Theta Tau. Just because Delta Theta Tau is not part of the NPC does not mean that that the NPC denies the existence. That is a silly argument.Delta Sigma Theta is not part of the Panhellenic Council either, but I think we can all agree they are recognized! There are more NON-NPC sororities than ones that do belong to the NPC. Your other argument "Just because an organization chooses to call itself a sorority and use greek letters does not mean that it is a sorority." is way off base as well. Are you saying that Phi Sigma Sigma was not a real sorority until it joined the NPC? Ridiculous. They were founded after Delta Theta Tau and since they were both non-sectarian from the beginning, means that Phi Sigma Sigma is not the first one. It can claim to be the first NPC one or the first collegiate one. This is not a personal attack, but I think you are taking this personally because it is your organization.Eelmonkey 02:16, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Please note that anything on this talk page that I've written has my signature underneath it, the comment that you're responding to does not. If I remember correctly an IP added it, though I could be wrong. --ImmortalGoddezz 02:29, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually I am wrong, looking back at the edit history a registered member did add it. I've added the unsigned template to the comment. --ImmortalGoddezz 02:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
My very sincerest apologies! I really thought that was your comment. I stand corrected on the author of the mentioned comments. I've edited my response title. Thank you.Eelmonkey 13:32, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
I have reread PhiSigBecca's comment and want to also add that just because a group is not part of an umbrella organization does not mean that they do not have good record keeping or "standards" as you put it. Unless you are also a part of one of those types of sororities, then you really can't know what they keep records of or what their standards are. Just because a group is not part of the NPC doesn't automatically make it less ligitimate.Eelmonkey 16:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)