Talk:Pharmaceutical company

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I deleted the last sentence in the introduction. "The most sucessful and influential industries..." I have done research on the topic and cannot find any conclusive evidence of such facts. The only research I found, which seemed biased, suggested the pharmaceutical industry had profit margins of approximately 26% which does not seem accurate for many smaller companies. The deleted sentence could be true but to make such assertions about an industry the contributor should cite the source. Johnbushiii (talk) 18:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


Based on my brief exploration of Wikipedia, I don't think the degree of bias in this article is typical of Wikipedia in general. There are key facts missing (e.g. in the discussion of AIDS drugs, no mention is made of the millions of dollars worth of medicine donated to African countries by the drug companies). If facts such as these were included, a more balanced article would result, but perhaps the author's agenda would not be served. I will try to find time to edit the most blatant portions of this article. 68.72.111.4 (talk · contribs)

If you have something to add to this article, please do. I have previously written neutral content to debiasify the article. JFW | T@lk 08:13, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I edited some items. Thanks... btw, I wrote the first item on this discussion page.


Contents

[edit] Medicare Part D

I added a short note on Medicare Part D because of the size of the revenues associated with this program. CommodiCast 21:51, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Numerous additions

In the last few days I rearranged and added a number of sections. CommodiCast 20:28, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Duplication in other articles

I wonder if anyone else feel that the (very nice) sections on Drug discovery and development would be better placed in the articles of those names? There is a lot of duplication between those articles, this one, and the article on regulatory requirements. --Dogbertd 09:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Drug Manufacturing

Drugs don't grow in trees (well, some do) and need to be manufactured. There is a section missing on this subject, I think. Maybe I'll write it some day, including fermentation, chemical synthesis, outsourcing, etc. The pharmaceutical industry is quite wastefull compared to other chemical industry branches, but it has the best public image. Maybe I'll comment on this too.

[edit] Bibliography

Needs to be setup with the ISBN rather than a link to Amazon.com. This should be done or the books deleted. Cordially SirIsaacBrock 01:08, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sanofi-Aventis R&D spending

The article had stated that Sanofi-Aventis R&D spending was USD $9.3 billion. However the actual source (Source: Wendy Diller and Herman Saftlas, "Healthcare: Pharmaceuticals," Standard & Poor’s Industry Surveys, 22 December 2005, 13) for these figure list Sanofi-Aventis as spending USD $3.9 for R&D. Since this is most likely a typo, I have corrected the error.

Well done. Thanks. JFW | T@lk 22:11, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation needed in Controversy section

The bullet point that begins, "From 1980 to 1997..." should have a citation for the statistics given concerning favorable study results. In addition, the last two sentences could use either some documentation or an external link. I'm not trying to dispute the points one way or the other, but a reference would be especially informative, given its location in the controversy section.

[edit] Direct Quotations

In the Drug Discovery section, I am not sure, but are those just cut and paste quotations from another site? Sorry for not delving into it at the moment, but it seems like that should be addressed. Perhaps by rewording and creating new text or by at least a more clear recognition of the source. As it is, they are in quotes, but by the paragraph and barely noticeable. Sorry for just complaining and not doing anything about it. Let me know if I'm off on this, otherwise I'll eventually get around to putting myt money where my mouth is and addressing it myself. --Gbinal 10:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that. Needless to say, it is unacceptable. Those quotations are disembodied in their current form. Furthermore, they are not cited properly. At best, it is terribly poor writing; at worst, it is academically dishonest. I will correct the problem in the near future and clean the whole article up while I am at it. Firewall62 06:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the copyright violations. JonHarder 15:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

I've given this article a bit of an overhaul. Expanded the history section. Tried to rationalise all the different levels of headings. Integrated the disparate points collected under 'controversy' in to the topics to which they refer. Added some new bits and pieces. EverSince 22:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pharmaceutical Industry vs Company

This article blends the concept of the entire pharmaceutical industry into the idea of the single company. I don't think that is particularly useful. These two topics have distinct uses, especially when it comes time to pick an appropriate internal link for another Wiki article. For example, a company that manufactures plastic bottles of use to both the pharmaceutical industry and beverage industry is better linked to the pharm industry link, while a drug company in NJ or its CEO is better linked to the pharm company link. A city that has a great number of pharmaceutical companies within its borders should link to pharm companies, while an association that represents the pharm industry has a broader "industry" nature. Such a distinction between industry and firms would allow for development of more sophisticated discussions within Wiki, such as 1)how the industry as a whole deals with the AIDS crisis or lobbying in Washington, DC, versus 2) where individual companies are located, who works for them, and maybe some microeconomic issues like liability, advertising, local government regulation, and hiring. This seems to be an issue on many industries, such as ceramics industry, food and beverage industry, et al. I've been working on the plastics industry myself. Pat 22:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Restructuring

There are too many sub-sections with only a few sentences, these should be expanded or (preferably) consolidated. Also, many of the sections should link to main articles (if they exist) or split into new articles. For instance, "From drug discovery to market" should link to the separate articles on "Drug Discovery" and "Drug Development". The overall arc of the article should also be rethought. The introduction could use a little more substance. History is a good start to the main body of the article, but there is no logical order to the sections that follow. Criticisms should generally be worked into the article where appropriate, and not given their own section unless there is nowhere else to put them. More specific topics should be placed at the end of the article. I apologize for not implementing these suggestions myself; maybe when I have more time. AAMiller 22:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Still a mess, but it's a start...AAMiller 00:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Kevin trudeau

i think tat kevin trudeau, being an important part of the pharmceutical company criticism organizations, belongs as a see-also reference on the phrmarceutical company talkpage. the editors who have revered my edits have given no reason why apart from their possible prersonal dislike of Mr. Trudeau's work and i dontthitnk that sa valid reason to violate wikipedia: NPOV. and otehr guidelines protecting wikipedia from bias. Smith Jones (talk) 00:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC) Smith Jones (talk) 00:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC) Smith Jones (talk) 00:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Kevin Trudeau has nothing to do with the pharmaceutical industry. Whether a link belongs in the "See also" section should be approached with common sense, and common sense is that a random altmed proponent isn't an appropriate link for a few reasons:
  1. There's nothing in the article about Trudeau.
  2. The other links in the section are clearly logical extensions of the functions of the industry itself.
  3. Trudeau is only one of many that have ever criticized the industry, and it's not the Wikipedia norm to list every detractor in the See also section.
  4. A dedicated article to the criticisms of the industry may be appropriate, and a Trudeau link would possibly make sense there. — Scientizzle 00:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
kevin trudeau was indeed metnioned in the article earlier, in a referfnece regarding his detractions of the pharmceutical community.
i admit that there is not al ot of supporting evidence CURRENLY INto the article
trudeau is a leading well-known and notable critic snad his name belongs there just as james randi's name belong on a sylvia browne article.
i like your suggestion of a Criticiims of the Pharmaceutical INdustry idea and i will create it later tonight. Smith Jones (talk) 00:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Smith Jones you said "MR. Trudeau's presitigous name" in one of your edit summaries. How is his name prestigious? According to the article on him "On November 19, 2007, he was found in contempt of court again for "patently false" claims in his weight loss book" and "The FTC currently restricts his ability to promote and sell any product or service." "Trudeau has criminal convictions in the early 1990s for fraud and larceny." It seems that all he is really notable for is his products which he is not allowed to sell. Somehow I don't think the words of a convcited fellow who was convicted for crimes in this area (false claims about health products) are reliable. Also seeing as it is currently illegal for him to promote his products within the United States (where he is a citizen) it seems inappropriate to reference any source in which he does that in an article that is not about him or his products. I think the comment should be removed entirely. JamesStewart7 (talk) 05:53, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, Trudeau is one of the greater scam artists of the modern era. Somehow his repeated convictions for fraud, etc., don't dissuade his supporters from believing his quackery-of-the-month.
Additionally, the statements continually added by User:Smith Jones regarding Trudeau are of no benefit to the article's content as a whole. — Scientizzle 06:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
if being a convicted felon makes him unrleliable then i will have to agree with you and i wont add his name to this article agian. however, i dont think that this discredits him on an article relating to his CLAIMS, (which ae not by definiton true or false, merely statements of act that he made). do you agree with me on that count? Smith Jones (talk) 20:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
No real disagreement here. Trudeau is notable as an encyclopedic subject for many reasons, and his claims agains the pharma industry may merit treatment on Wikipedia, on his article in particular, but perhaps in a wider altmed vs evidence-based-medicine/big pharma article. Additionally, there are certainly many different people and organizations that have leveled various claims against this industry as a whole, and those deserve attention; howwever, criticism sections easily become magnets for editors to add any claim from their cause du jour irrespective of the strength and relevance of the claims and whether it truly contributes to a further understanding of the topic (or exists as just another jab at the subject with a wikilinked name-drop). Sections that suffer too greatly from this syndrome tend to lose focus, becoming a melange of complaints rather than an academic treatment of the variety, nature and strength of established criticisms. Trudeau's claims are easily dismissed (for better or worse) by their general pseudoscientific nature and conspiracy theory mongering; his reputation makes it difficult for many to take him seriously, particularly concerning claims of this nature. In total, Trudeau lacks the gravitas of the other orgaizations already cited in the criticism section and his inclusion just doesn't fit--it's a bit like trying to adding criticisms from Sean Penn into a critique of American foreign policy...the guy's clearly notable, but likely doesn't merit much attention on these views (outside of his own article, perhaps). — Scientizzle 21:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)