Talk:Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi Germany

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[edit] The number of people which died

The article should make it clear that there are various sources that have dealt with the numbers of those who died, not only Jehovah's Witnesses themselves. It should also be noted that Norman Hovland is far from a neutral source. Summer Song (talk) 16:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

The article does present other sources. And it doesn't matter if Hovlnd is not a neutral source, he quotes directly from WT sources. 63.196.193.204 (talk) 16:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
It is clear that JW persecuted in Nazi Germany were few compared to other persecuted groups. What is not clear is the real number. The Watchtower literature presents numbers based on varous sources which have differed. That should be made clear in the article. Summer Song (talk) 16:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Well here's the statement: The actual number which died in the camps the Watchtower Society has presented over the years has, in fact, varied widely [9][10] but 635 is the most specific [11]. I think that's pretty clear. 63.196.193.59 (talk) 18:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


I've added "and consistantly used figure" to the above line since the WT used that specific number three times: the 1974 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 212, The Watchtower, February 1, 1976, p. 82, and The Watchtower, July 1, 1979, pp. 7-8. 63.196.193.59 (talk) 19:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Editor2020 and Declaration"

Please be very careful about switching references! I did the original research and you took out the correct reference. The paragraph below is correct.

Your edit: Dr. Garbe has described Gebhard's book as “biased”,[1] saying that it “was based on a manuscript by [Guenther Pape a excommunicated Witness who subsequently wrote strong accusations against his former religious associates] which he compiled at the end of the 1960's” Dr. Garbe refers to it as having, “distorted quotations” and is characterized by a “selective use of quotes”.


Correct quote: Sadly today many professional historians and critics of Jehovah's Witnesses still use this “biased book”,[2] Published under the name of Manfred Gebhard.[3]

Sorry I messed up the reference. Just trying to get it clear.
The reference is unclear--as written it appears that Gebhard said "Sadly today many professional historians and critics of Jehovah's Witnesses still use this “biased book”," in Die Zeugen Jehovas: Eine Dokumentation uber die Watchtturm-Gesellschaft. Or is it from the second book mentioned Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi-Regime 1933-1945? Or, as I assumed, was it from Garbe's Zwischen Widerstand und Martyrium?
Also, if this sentence is not a direct quote it's going to be POV.
"Published under the name of Manfred Gebhard."? If this is the second part of the previous sentence the "P" should be lower case. But why is this included? Is this fact in doubt? It is referenced in the previous reference. And what is Zwischen Widerstand und Martyrium a reference for?

--Editor2020 (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Declaration of Facts- Justification

The section which I removed and you replaced is an attempt to provide justification for the statements which the German Bible students made in the Declaration.

Tellingly, the source for this material is the Watchtower publication Awake. I had stripped out this attempt to slant the account to the Watchtowers interpretation and retained excerpts and reference links to the document. Let the reader make their own interpretation, or provide links to unbiased historians for their explanations. --Editor2020 (talk) 18:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Declaration of Facts-Platform Points

"The letter stated that their position was one of political neutrality, however it also referred to points on which they both agreed such as the Nazi party platform points of 1920 mentioned above."

This is an attempt to misrepresent what was in the Declaration. Nowhere does it say or imply that the statements of support they were making had anything to do with the 1920 platform.

This is an attempt to slant the interpretation.--Editor2020 (talk) 19:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have studied the articles provided and I do say one thing. The Bible Students or (JW's) did go through much trouble and get arrestted for not serving Hitler. The number is not important if it can not be documented by anyone but a biased group. The fact remains that they did get mistreated for their faith.Jackgephart (talk) 20:48, 12 April 2008 (UTC)