Talk:Penutian languages

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[edit]

I believe the relationship between the Oregon Coast languages (Alsea, Coos, Siuslaw) and, surprisingly, Wintu, has been better substantiated, but that people have started giving up on Tsimshian. That would reduce Penutian to 7 families. I'll try to contribute something when I have better access to the research.

Whoever wrote this, you did a nice job. Could you maybe put your hand to Hokan? I touched it up a bit, but it's still a hack job. --kwami 10:55, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi.

Yes, this article is unfinished. Please contribute whatever you can. Before I started on this I think the authors simply copied Ethnologue.com's list. I dont know where Ethnologue is getting their info from. Maybe something from the 1960s? (Voegelin?)

Another issue is that many individual language articles state that X language is a Penutian language. I think that these statements all need to be qualified.

Re Hokan: The "wastepaper basket stock" needs to have some things mentioned about it as well. Feel free to work on this. I think that I would like to get every language at least represented on Wikipedia before turning to this matter.

Peace. — ishwar (SPEAK) 16:53, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)

[edit] just some notes

Victor Golla's "intuitions" (1993, personal communication in Campbell 1997):

• Oregon Penutian group

1. Alsean langs (?)
2. Coosan langs
3. Wintuan langs
4. Siuslaw

• Central Penutian group

1. Takelman langs   (discredited by Kendall & Tarpent 1998)
2. Yokutsan langs

• other group

1. Maiduan langs
2. Plateau Penutian langs
3. Utian langs

• Alsean langs (outlier) (?)
• Chinookan langs (outlier) (??)

Catherine Callaghan:

• Yok-Utian langs (not including Wintuan, Maiduan)
• 5-lang California group is out

Berman's (1996) California Penutian:

• Wintuan langs
• Yokuts-Maiduan-Utian
  • Yokutsan langs
  • Maiduan langs
  • Utian langs

others:

• Mexican Penutian
• Cayuse + Plateau Penutian langs (through Molala)
• Sahaptian langs + Klamath + Tsimshian langs
• Klamath + California Penutian langs
• Takelman langs (= Takelma + Kalapuyan langs)
• Zuni + Penutian family
• Whorf's Macro-Penutian
• Swadesh's Penutoid
• Greenberg's Penutian (= California, Oregon-Plateau, Chinookan, Tsimshian, Huave-Mayan-Mixe-Zoque-Totonac-Tepehua, Yukian, Gulf, Zuni)

just enjoy these random notes for now. — ishwar  (SPEAK) 09:06, 2005 Jun 4 (UTC)

[edit] RE: sugroupings

Is "sugroupings" suppose to be "subgroupings"? WikiDon

yes. thanks, I changed it. peace – ishwar  (speak) 16:22, 2005 September 1 (UTC)

• I thought so, but couldn't be sure that there wasn't some new academic term floating around that I hadn’t heard of. WikiDon

---

RE: "people have started giving up on Tsimshian"

What sources have you been consulting? The page on Tsimshianic languages gives a reference to an article "Tsimshianic and Penutian", published in IJAL in 1997. In the same volume (a special on "Penutian" languages) is this from the editors, DeLancey & Golla: "recent work by Tarpent ... substantially changes the status of Tsimshianic as a Penutian stock from intriguing and plausible to the default hypothesis." Tarpent is also the co-author (with Kendall) of a paper disproving the unity of "Takelman", a once-proposed (and uncritically adopted) group consisting of Takelma and Kalapuyan. This paper has been quoted approvingly in Mithun's comprehensive work on the languages of the Americas, as well as in the wiki pages on Takelma and Kalapuya.

Penutgirl 20:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)