Talk:Penance

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This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

From Talk:Confession (with edits for clarity)

This sacrament was formerly called confession, and many Catholics still use this term, however, it is now doctrinally incorrect.

I have reinserted this statement; it is doctrinally correct and particularly informative, considering that most non-Catholics (and many Catholics) are not aware that the sacrament is no longer called "confession." The proper name for the sacrament is reconciliation. (Pennance is also acceptable.) Please offer a rationale here before removing the statement. -- Essjay · Talk 02:18, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] "Confession"

This is false; what is meant by the expression "doctrinally incorrect"? I have met many bishops and cardinals, and they all use the word "confession." Most books I have read about the subject frequently refer to this sacrament as "confession." Doctrinally incorrect? No, maybe a few liberal priests and Catholics say that the sacrament is "no longer called" confession, but this is not true. This statement is false.

[edit] Reconciliation

The sacrament is often called "confession" but confession is only one aspect of the sacrament. It has been renamed to emphasize that there other aspects of the sacrament; it is a reconciliation with God. I offer the following examples:

  • The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 1210: Christ instituted the sacraments of the new law. There are seven: Baptism, Confirmation (or Chrismation), the Eucharist, Penance, the Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders and Matrimony.
  • The Catechism of the Catholic Church, Article 4: THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION
  • The Code of Canon Law: Title IV. The Sacrament of Penance
    • Can. 987 To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God.
  • "I wrote in my Apostolic Letter Novo Millennio Ineunte: “I am asking for renewed pastoral courage in ensuring that the day-to-day teaching of Christian communities persuasively and effectively presents the practice of the Sacrament of Reconciliation." -Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Letter in the Form of Motu Proprio Misericordia Dei on Certain Aspects of the Celebration of the Sacrament of Penance.
  • "Through a mysterious sharing in the victory of our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross, the Sacrament of Penance overcomes the division between man and God caused by sin." -Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Circular Letter concerning the integrity of the Sacrament of Penance.

Unless you consider Pope John Paul II and Francis Cardinal Arinze of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, the Vatican's chief official in the area of the sacraments, to be "a few liberal priests," you're among those who aren't aware of the change. It's a very common mistake. The sacrament's official name is penance or reconciliation, or both, never "confession." One may still "go to confession," hear "confessions," and "confess thier sins," but you cannot receive the "sacrament of confession." The name of the sacrament is "Penance and Reconciliation," properly shortened to "Penance" or "Reconciliation." -- Essjay · Talk 04:10, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

If the term confession continues to be inserted in articles relating to this sacrament as a valid term for the sacrament, I am going to start an RfC on the matter. -- Essjay · Talk 23:17, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Conflation

There is a conflation in this article between Catholicism and Roman Catholicism, which are not entirely synonymous terms. There are many Anglicans who would resent being cast into a section called "Protestantism." Surely "Anglicanism" or "Other Christian enominations" would be more exact. Hence I have edited accordingly. Fishhead64 04:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

I have done some editing of this article, to take it out of its 1911 mode, hopefully. It could really do with some expansion on the topic of penance in non-Christian faith traditions, though. I'm not qualified to do this, but hopefully someone is. Fishhead64 05:46, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Openning paragraph

I will admit I'm an outsider on this article, but the openning paragraph strikes me as being rather clunky. The first sentance is split up by a long bracketed definition that should probably have its own sentance nearby and it isn't easy to understand. I can see that there has been some debate about sacrament that has probably muddied the waters but I don't really know enough about the topic to improve the openning. So I thought I'd just point it out. Morgrim 14:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

hi, i'm just in my online course, and I'm bored, so I thought I'd drop by and say HI!

[edit] external link

For neutrality and balance. I am going to add this: http://www.carm.org/catholic/penance.htm regarding Protestant views on Penance. I found no proof of spamming on this website with its hyperlinks. What do you think? - 219.73.11.127 07:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

No you won't. Stop spamming that website into articles. IrishGuy talk 19:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

what spamming? This single web-article by CARM obviously focus on the topic of Penance. Instances exist on wiki when CARM articles are widely used as external sources:

Don't make me laugh.--219.73.11.127 04:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

One last time, adding links to the same website in numerous articles is spamming. Stop. IrishGuy talk 07:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Click and read the URL above which only has hyperlinks to the mother page only, not "articles"(plural form). It is simply on-topic Penance article. Stop making false accusation.219.73.11.127 08:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Considering that you have been reverted by other editors and blocked for spamming, I hardly think there are any false accusations on my part. IrishGuy talk 22:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources for the term dharmic religions?

Where are the reliable sources that use the term dharmic religions in the context of this article? Dharmic religions is a now deleted obscure neologism and should not be used throughout Wikipedia. Andries 15:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I propose to use the alternative phrase Indian religions. The number of google scholar results for "Indian religions"+"Indian religion" is (45.600 + 84.200) while it is only (492+475) for "dharmic religions" +"dharmic religion". See Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_September_8. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andries (talk • contribs) 19:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)