Talk:Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by the Royalty and nobility work group.
Photo request It is requested that a picture or pictures of this person be included in this article to improve its quality.

Note: Wikipedia's non-free content use policy almost never permits the use of non-free images (such as promotional photos, press photos, screenshots, book covers and similar) to merely show what a living person looks like. Efforts should be made to take a free licensed photo during a public appearance, or obtaining a free content release of an existing photo instead.
Maintenance An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article, or the current infobox may need to be updated. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information.
Greece Portal
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greece, an attempt to expand, improve and standardize the content and structure of articles related to Greece.
If you would like to participate, you can improve Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece, or sign up and contribute in a wider array of articles like those on our to do list. If you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (comments)
Mid This article has been rated as a Mid priority article

Contents

[edit] Plebiscite on abolition of the monarchy

Regarding the year in which this occurred: my understanding from my reading is that there was a first plebiscite in July 1973 held by the Colonels' junta, and then another in Dec 1974 held by Karamanlis' government. Both were on the question of abolishing the monarchy in favor of a republic. Both are referred to in the article, although for Dec 1974, the word referendum is used instead of plebiscite. I am changing the date given in the article for the first plebiscite back to 1973. LiniShu 04:25, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Shouldn't this article be named "Pavlos de Grecia"? That is the name he comes by, right? The ", crown prince of Greece" suffix is neither used as a last name nor an nobility title, as there exist no nobitlity titles in Greece. Michalis Famelis 18:26, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

That is a valid question. As a past contributor to this article, though not responsible for the original naming, I, also, am interested to consider if it currently has the most appropriate name. I've done some checking again of the MOS. I found the following pages relevant to the naming of this article:
  • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) - see the section on "Nick names, pen names, stage names, cognomens" - a relevant phrase here is "[the name] most often used to refer to a certain person".
  • Guideline #7 under Monarchical titles: "Former or deposed monarchs should be referred to by their previous monarchical title with the exception of those who are still alive and are most commonly referred to by a non-monarchial title; all former or deposed monarchs should revert to their previous monarchical title upon death." (Pavlos' father, Constantine, is actually cited as an example here).
  • Guidline #5 under Other royalty addresses the use of the <Name>, Crown Prince of <state> form, as being appropriate usage (although it does not address the situation when the title is no longer recognized by the state.)
  • Guideline #7 under Other royalty advises "Do not use 'surnames' in article names [of members of royal families]"
A conclusion that I draw is that it would not be incorrect to use either the name "Pavlos de Grecia" (his current legal name) or "Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece" (remember, here, the intended "timeless" nature of Wikipedia; at one time during his life (the first 6 years) this was his rightful title even within Greece.) So, the question to ask for English Wikipedia is, which is most commonly used in English? One measure for common usage is Google hits, I found the following results:
  • Prince Pavlos of Greece - 541 hits
  • Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece - 397 hits
  • Pavlos de Grecia - 7 hits (all in Spanish)
  • Prince Pavlos of Greece and Denmark - 5 hits
Based on the far higher number of Google hits for either "Prince Pavlos of Greece", or "Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece", than for "Pavlos de Grecia", at this time (2005), I would recommend keeping the current article title.
Granted, either keeping the article as "Pavlos, Crown Prince of Greece", or changing it to "Pavlos de Grecia" does carry a POV with it either way, so it does seem appropriate to name the article according to the most common usage, and to maintain NPOV by insuring that both POVs are addressed in the article.
--LiniShu 12:37, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I really think this should have been put to a vote before being moved. As Pavlos was born in 1967, and the monarchy wasn't completely abolished until 1974, wouldn't he have been Crown Prince then, adn that is the title that most people know him as. Prsgoddess187 23:59, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Page restored to original location as it was moved without following requires requested move procedures and left complete chaos (broken links, talk page at one name, article at another name). I am astonished that so senior a user as Adam would have chosen to break every single rule on Wikipedia here; from the Manual of Style MCN rule to the Naming Conventions to the moving pages rules to the fixing of links. If an anonymous user had acted that way they could have received an instant final warning. But for the fact that it is Adam it would have been reported as vandalism. One can only presume that Adam was having a bad day. If however it is done again in the manner in which it was done it will be treated as vandalism and reported as such. Adam knows very well he cannot do that that way. One can but credit it with a 'moment of madness' which he hopefully has recovered from. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 00:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 1973 or 1974

When did Constantine II cease to be King of the Hellenes: At the top of the article he's listed as King from 1964-73, yet later in the article the monarchy is declared abolished in 1974. Further more in the Constantine II of Greece article, Constantine is listed as King from 1964-74. From 1973-74 ,did or didn't Greece have a King? it can't be both ways, can it? GoodDay 22:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The Greek democracy when restored opted to accept the 1973 republic as having a de-facto existence and used its presidency, rather than automatically returning the King to the throne, until a referendum on the monarchy could be held. It was technically a questionable act: if the Regime of the Colonels was illegal, then so was its republic, meaning that the King was still king. But they feared that Constantine, who was a political numbskull, would meddle if he was allowed back. Even worse his presence might sway the vote in favour of the monarchy. So they kept him in exile illegally while they held the referendum and allowed the presidency to remain on in the interim. Constantine II was democratically deposed in 1974 but lost the throne in 1973. You could say that de facto he ceased to be king in 1973, even if de jure he was king until 1974. On balance, given that it matches reality, it makes more sense to say that he lost the throne in 1973 and had it legally confirmed in 1974. So 1973 is probably the best date to use. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 22:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, 1973 is probably the best date to use. GoodDay 22:49, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wife's Title

It seems very odd that she would be styled "HRH Marie-Chantal, the Crown Princess Pavlos" ... shouldn't she be styled, as per typical royal form, "HRH The Crown Princess Pavlos" or "HRH The Crown Princess of Greece"? Mowens35 15:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe since the Greek monarchy has been deposed, calling her The Crown Princess (Pavlos) would seem to some a little misleading. As Pavlos was at one time The Crown Prince of Greece, this title for him is correct. On the Greek Royal Family's webpage (POV to be sure) she is titled "HRH Crown Princess Pavlos", see it here. But that is only my opinion, please do not take it for fact. Prsgoddess187 01:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:News glykxboorg.jpg

Image:News glykxboorg.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name

I moved this to Pavlos, but User:Peeperman has moved it back to Paul. He is referred to as Pavlos on the royal family's own website, and I have rarely, if ever, seen him actually called Paul in English. My computer is not letting me use search engines (pretty sure I have some kind of spyware right now) so I cannot go look for myself, but I believe he's better known as Crown Prince Pavlos. His siblings are at the articles corresponding to their Greek titles. His father is only at Constantine because that is what he goes by, instead of the Greek Konstantinos. But Pavlos I have only ever seen referred to as Pavlos, not Paul. Morhange (talk) 10:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] KING OF GREECE

I would like to note the following: The title "KING OF GREECE" belongs to the descendants of King Otto - the Wittelsbachs. The current descendants of George I of the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg line of the House of Oldenburg have a right to the royal title of King of the Hellenes. They are NOT entitled to the royal title King of Greece, even if often referred to as such.81.132.186.249 (talk) 22:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)