Talk:Pavement (material)

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I see that the UK use of the word 'pavement' has been pushed down into it's own page entitled 'Pavement (British English)'. When there are regional variations such as this, please consider making any 'disambiguation' consistent. IE, please consider renaming this article 'Pavement (US English)'. Hopefully, do this would avoid causing offence unnecessarily.

Glad someone moved the British English reference to the top of the article. MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 The A-Road Dual Carriageway Pavement Campign 2 Stress 3 Metalling 4 Definition 5 The tarmac picture 6 History 7 Jointed plain vs HMA? 8 Page moved

[edit] The A-Road Dual Carriageway Pavement Campign

My campaign is for a pavement to be put along all A-Road dual carriageways inb Britain to make it safer for pedestrains.

[edit] Stress

I modified the title of this section to "Pavement deterioration" and added discussion of the design process. This was added to clarify the recent behind-the-scenes controversy over pavement damage due to truck traffic. Trucks are, in point of fact, almost entirely responsible for long-term pavement distress. This is not a controversy to civil engineers.

I added reference to the new FHwA standards for completeness.

MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

There are some non-load related pavement distresses - thermal cracking in AC is probably the most common. Now, thermal cracking is addressed by proper binder selection, not the pavement structural design. Oxidation/raveling also has an environmental cause, in fact traffic appears to inhibit oxidation. On very low volume roads oxidation can be the predominant distress, otherwise it's rare. Frost heaves are another non-load related distress, although traffic loading can turn a minor frost heave problem into a major one during the spring thaw.

The main point is that while traffic loading is almost always the cause of pavement failure, pavement materials are very sensitive to environmental effects. The stiffness of subgrade materials is very sensitive to moisture content, and that of asphalt materials is sensitive to temperature. PCC slabs are sensitve to temperature gradients - curl and warp causes loss of support (coefficient of thermal expansion and built-in curl and warp of concrete slabs is currently a very active area of research). So, if you build identical pavement sections in Arizona and Maine and subject them to identical loading, you should still expect that the service life and failure mechanisims will be different. So saying that "Trucks are, in point of fact, almost entirely responsible for long-term pavement distress" is the truth but not the whole truth.

I removed the link the FHWA DGIT page. The design guide in question was developed under National Cooperative Highway Research Program (NCHRP) project 1-37A for AASHTO usage, although it hasn't been adopted by AASHTO yet. FHWA is just helping state DOTs implement it. If you want to include a link, http://www.trb.org/mepdg/ or http://www4.nationalacademies.org/trb/crp.nsf/All+Projects/NCHRP+1-37A would be better. Toiyabe 01:05, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metalling

This is not the American term for these kinds of roads that I can tell. These are typically called macadam here, or formally: "Stabilized." Regional usage varies widely even here. I recommend modifying the title to "Stabilized" (Yes, with a "z" as this is the American pavement article. :) ) but expand the reference to include metalling, macadam, gravel, etc. I would also recommend discussing the various ways that these are stabilized: sand-clay, calcium-chloride, portland cement, bitumen, etc. Opinions are invited. MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard the terms "metalling" or "road metal", must be strictly Commonwealth-ese. I would suggest we move that content to a History section that deals with macadam, tarmac (misusage of these terms is a pet peeve of mine), brick, cobble, plank. Could also throw in telford and corduroy. Yes, a few such pavements still exist and some might even be still built, but the overall milage is tiny even on a world-wide scale. Gravel or unbound roads should get their own section.

A separate stabilization section would also be a good idea. Should include Lime (calcium oxide or hydroxide, not ag lime), portland cement, flyash, asphalt. Tar is rare in the US (I would expect to only see it in the rust-belt), but maybe not elsewhere. Calcium chloride, other chlorides and the assorted polymers are really dust palatives, though they are sometimes promoted as stabilization agents for gravel roads. There's also the term "mechanical stabilization" which referes to improving a subgrade or existing base by mixing in aggregate. Macadam and tarmac are not stabilization methods as they are intended to be the surface layer. Toiyabe 02:03, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

As an American, pavement refers to the material which cars, bicycles, and pedestrians may travel on, and not so much to the actual roadways, bicycle paths, and sidewalks themselves. Am I alone here?

No, that is the American engineers' usage. MARussellPESE 17:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The tarmac picture

does not show a new road being laid next to the old surface... the old surface has been stripped away.

[edit] History

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (January 2007)

It would be interesting to learn more about the history of paving technology, and the reasons why it has changed. -- Beland 00:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes... I came here trying to find info to date an old photo. When did most small towns in US and other areas go from dirt roads to paved? What about larger cities? --GregU 23:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jointed plain vs HMA?

The section on concrete states "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies build jointed plain pavements." At least in the Northeastern US, HMA is the favored material. Should this be "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies that construct concrete pavement build jointed plain pavements."

Triskele Jim 20:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page moved

The page Pavement (material) was moved to Road surface by Parable1991 at 14:03, 5 May 2007. This appears to be a unilateral move without prior discussion. I believe it was done against standard practice, and by someone who has a history of engaging in such acts (see past warning and user edit history). I'm going to request the page be moved back and that the user be blocked. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 22:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

There actually is a strong case to be made for this move. We don't switch from one English variety to another unless we have a good reason to, but the ability to eliminate parenthetical disambiguation (which we generally attempt to avoid using whenever possible) is such a reason. Just as we moved Check (finance) to Cheque, it would make sense to move this article from Pavement (material) to Road surface. For the record, I'm American. —David Levy 01:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC)