User talk:Pats1/Archives/2007/June

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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League‎

Please do not delete my comments from an ongoing discussion. Bjewiki 22:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Yo pats, IM me when you get this. Wanted to talk to you about the 2007 team season articles.Chris Nelson 02:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

St. Louis Rams depth chart

Actually, it is unoffical because the Rams only have three stings worth of players, not five. I don't know where you are getting your information from. Could you please let me know. Thanks for helping out with the Rams page. --Pinkkeith 21:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that is how the Rams historically have organized their players. I just don't understand how you are ordering the players for the third, fourth and fifth string. I'm not an expert on other organizations, but according to other team websites they do go out to the fourth string, I haven't seen one that goes out to the fifth string. --Pinkkeith 21:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

NFL infobox

I'm not going to push this whole Tom Malone tug-o-war, but it looks like you're going to need to look up a lot of violators in other leagues. Like many other infoboxes (University infobox used on law schools; Governor infobox used on attorney generals) this is a box that's found use outside of just the original creation. In fact, isn't that the spirit of Wikipedia? To make things flexible? It's not as though the box outwardly says "NFL Player". --Bobak 22:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Jersey pictures

Yo Pats, if you look at my talk page, you'll see I've been told there's a problem with my Dolphins uniform uploads. I got them from the same place you did and I used the sports uniform template in the license. I figured they were okay since you uploaded Patriots ones. What should I do? Chris Nelson 06:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Depth Chart Poll

Added it for you real quick. Bjewiki 17:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Why did you delete the NFL team depth charts? Your poll asked if the Team Pages should include the depth charts and the answers were no but that doesn't mean they should be deleted. I worked hard on those and it would have been nice if you had included me. I have several reasons why I created them! Justvikings 21:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Buccaneers external links

The Buccaneers links to Bucstats.com and Bucpower.com are not spam links. Bucstats.com contains full game statistics of the Bucs since the team started in 1976, including opponent stats for each game. Bucpower.com contains the complete history of the Buccaneers, bio pages on every player in Buc history, complete draft details by year and much more. Both sites are legitimate sources for people looking for more information on the team. Please do not delete these links. Thank you. Bucstats 18:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Question about Moss...

How is the Boston press portraying Moss? I know that the national press is skeptical that he can turn things around, with three of the electors (Dr. Z, Peter King, and some hack from Buffalo) promissing to block his entry into the HoF, regardless of how he does with tha Pats... youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 00:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Infobox jersey number poll

Hey, please vote in the infobox jersey number poll at Template talk:Infobox NFL player.Chris Nelson 00:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of current NFL team depth charts

Could you provide the link to the discussion/vote you cited? I couldn't find it. IF it exists, then my vote is for delete... but as is, I would have to support keeping the list.Balloonman 04:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The NFL project, and the discussion on the Request for Deletion page all agreed that they violate WP:NOR Bjewiki 22:19, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Raiders nickname

Regarding the guy who put "Da Raidahs", his source is Chris Berman.Chris Nelson 22:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I mean I'm not saying it should be there, I really don't care either way. I'm just saying, if I had to put money on it I'd bet that's where he's getting it from.Chris Nelson 23:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that a nickname had to be used in a print article to merit inclusion in the infobox. Can you point out the guideline that requires that? --cholmes75 (chit chat) 14:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Number of edits

I notice people have those userboxes with the number of edits they've made in them. Maybe I'm retarded but where do they find that info? I'm curious as to my own number.Chris Nelson 18:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Wow, lame.Chris Nelson 18:58, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
How dare you indent my shit!Chris Nelson 19:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

NFLE Allocations

I think that'd be fine.Chris Nelson 14:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Bears team template

First of all you added the name Dectaur Staleys to the team template as if the franchise still goes by that name, which is unnecessary. The franchise is known as the Chicago Bears not the Decatur Staleys. The second thing you added was the quarterbacks link, which in case of the Bears article leads the user to the Players article, just as the coaches link leads users to the main Bears article. So what is the point of 4 links that lead to 2 pages. In your case for having the coaches link on the template may I say the whole point of the Table of Contents on the Bears article helps the user guide his way to the coaches section. So there is no need for it on the template. Also you unbolded Soldier Field II, which would give the user a clue to which of the stadiums is in current use by the Bears. Then you also took quotes of "The Super Bowl Shuffle" which is gramatically incorrect and unitalized Brian's Song which is a name of a movie. Also, you removed the NFL Championship Game Appearances list because in my opinion the Bears have a history that stems before the Super Bowl unlike some franchises so if Super Bowl Appearances make the template so should NFL Championship Game Appearances. It is okay that you got rid of the lists of coaches because I see what you mean with the Bearscoach template. Also I believe that a link to the 2007 season should be on there because training camp is less then 50 days away. --Happyman22 01:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Under your logic for the team name then the Green Bay Packers template would list about 6 to 7 names because of the unofficial local team names the franchise had. Also the quarterbacks page has just been redirected to the players page something I meant to do a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot. Also when it comes to the NFL Championship Appearances thing, I don't get it you want to list all historical names of the franchise such as Decatur Staleys/Chicago Bears or Boston/New England Patriots but yet you believe that only Modern NFL Championship Game appearances (Super Bowl) should be listed? You want to list a name from 1920, but only count only Super Bowl appearances? By the way take a look at Template:Arsenal F.C. then read the article Arsenal F.C.. You'll find out the soccer club had a different name when it was founded, but yet its template only lists the current name of Arsenal. Think about that. --Happyman22 01:54, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Reserve/Retired Players

See here, (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League#Reserve.2FRetired_Players_on_NFL_Roster_Templates) for my reasons, and a discussion (between Chris & I really) on why I removed the Reserve/Retired players.

I'll summarize it though for you:

1. That list isn't adding any real value. For instance, Antonio Freeman signed a 1-day contact and retired. Chad Schroeder was an undrafted Free Agent who retired before training camp (never even played in the NFL). Others (Tiki, Mike Bartrum) while more notable, don't add any real value to the roster template, because they're not really associated with the team anymore (heck, isn't Tiki doing the Today show or something?). It seems unecessary, and clutters up a roster that we've strived to make clean & concise.

2. I still believe (despite Chris' protests) that the Reserve/Retired list would have a real issue with WP:VERIFY. Yes, it's true I've admitted over and over that when players retire under contract, they are placed on this list so the team retrains their rights. However, you're not going to find this list on any official team, or NFL website. Yes, we likely know when someone goes on the list. But I doubt we would be able to tell when they're off the list (are they ever off the list?), and there's no easy way right now to go look up every team's list, and see exactly which players are on it. Right now a roster is pretty easy to verify, just by looking at the team's official roster, or the NFL roster (obviously once the season starts it will be come much easier). Basically, if the team roster template is presenting a "Reserve/Retired" list for every team, than you should have a way of verifying that the list is correct & complete.

Other lists (PUP, Suspended, IR, Practice Suqad) don't have this problem, because it's easy to look up on team & league resources which players are on these lists.

If you'd like to continue to discuss this matter, just do it in this space, and i'll "watch" for it. Bjewiki 14:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

They weren't my "protests" Bjewiki, they were my proving your argument illogical.Chris Nelson 16:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Matt McChesney

I researched this a little bit, and it appears to be true. Here's a NewYorkJets.com article from May stating he was shifted to guard on the practice squad in 2006. Also, if you look him up on the NFL Europe website, you'll find he was listed at guard and played it there too. Seems like he is 100% an offensive guard now.Chris Nelson 04:01, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Fair use rationales

Please note that, as per the fair-use rationale guidelines, as well as our policies Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images and Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria, we need to have a fair-use rationale for each individual use. Additionally, we're charged with preserving "minimal use" - the logo is fine in the article about the team, but probably is excessive when used to decorate individual season synopses. (ESkog)(Talk) 03:33, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand what you mean when you say "the rationale is provided within the image itself". Our policies require a unique, specific fair-use rationale for every use, and uses in articles other than the main subject are typically considered decorative. (ESkog)(Talk) 03:39, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
The image description page should have distinct rationales for each article it's used in. (ESkog)(Talk) 03:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

What I'm trying to explain to you is that the images probably shouldn't be used in this way. Logos can be used to identify the main subject of the logo; that is, the Chiefs logo can identify the team at Kansas City Chiefs. Further uses are considered decorative. (ESkog)(Talk) 04:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Per the three policy pages I've given above, for starters. Since any user can review an article for GA status, that point doesn't really show anything one way or another about how to properly interpret Foundation policy. (ESkog)(Talk) 04:22, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
You're right that the uniforms probably shouldn't be there either. I'm sure someone will get around to them. (ESkog)(Talk) 17:53, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Because we can't use a logo to decorate every single article which has anything to do with the team in question. There is not a proper fair-use rationale because this overuse of an image doesn't fit within our policies on non-free content. (ESkog)(Talk) 17:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair-use discussion

I have opened up a discussion on the administrators' noticeboard to try to bring broader feedback to our disagreement. It's not limited to admins and you are of course welcome to provide any comments you think would be helpful. (ESkog)(Talk) 18:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:New England Patriots home jersey.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:New England Patriots home jersey.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Moe ε 21:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:New England Patriots away jersey.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:New England Patriots away jersey.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Moe ε 21:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:New England Patriots alternate jersey.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:New England Patriots alternate jersey.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Moe ε 21:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)