Talk:Patriot Guard

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[edit] Fred Phelps/Westboro Baptist Church Reference?

Why is there no mention of the Phelps clan here? From what I can tell, the entire purpose of the Patriot Guard is to support families during funerals which are being protested by the Westboro Baptist Church(the godhatesfags people). Do they assist families being protested by any other groups? I'm not aware of any other groups which protest funerals. And, having considered this a bit further, it seems to me that, unlike what it says in the current article, the patriot guard are not disrupting "protests against the 2003 iraq war". The godhatesfags people are not protesting against the war, they are basically protesting against american society in general. I intend to change this article to reflect my understanding that the protests the patriot guard are disrupting are all by the godhatesfags group, unless someone tells me I'm wrong in this. --Xyzzyplugh 18:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


I edited the entry to reflect the official statement of the PatriotGuard group. In Oklahoma and in a few other state they stood between Phelps and the family. In most states they have nothing to do with Phelps. They honor those who died while serving in the military both active duty and vets. Steve 05:00, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Their "official statement" is not a neutral statement. We have to use information from the media such as the AP to determine what they really do. — 0918BRIAN • 2006-02-2 05:31


I checked out their website. Their History section claims they were started to counter the Phelps protests. In their Media section which contains links to news articles about them, every article mentions the Phelps protests. Their Mission statement clearly says their purpose is to shield families from protests, and the only protests I can find any mention of anywhere are those by the Phelps church. Therefore, I am going to rewrite the article to more accurately match their purpose and behavior. If anyone disagrees with my edit, please discuss it on this talk page rather than just reverting it.

My question is, should we expand this article to explain more about the nature of the Phelps protests? Anyone reading this article currently would not really understand what was going on.--Xyzzyplugh 14:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Xyzzplugh is incorrect that there's "no evidence" of broader purpose. The group's site includes substantial documentation of attendance at funerals with no protesters, e.g. http://www.eacourier.com/articles/2006/02/22/local_news/news01.txt The news reports focus on Phelps because it's more newsworthy than a group of vets and bikers who attend quiet funerals. I've updated to to reflect the group's current broader focus as a change and acknowledge Phelps as the initial impetus. [unregistered user, PGR member johnnysquire 2/24/2006]

[edit] Reverted changes

I just reverted to a previous version of the article, as it was far more NPOV than what had been the current one. I attempted to include the quality changes which had been made since then. It is clear from all news articles about the Patriot Guard that their one and only purpose is to attend funerals which the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and support/protect the family from the Westboro protesters. People keep making edits suggesting the group has a broader purpose, but there is no evidence of this. --Xyzzyplugh 02:51, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I am a PGR member. We do NOT soley show up for protested funerals. We attend all funerals of military members killed in action. We are the Patriot Guard Riders, not the Anti-Phelps Riders. When in doubt, read the WHOLE mission statement.http://www.patriotguard.org/OurMission/tabid/60/Default.aspx

[edit] Edit war?

There appear to be a series of back & forth reverts here between POV/NPOV (or at least, if the more recent revisions about the riders being an anti-Christian group with pending investigations into violent behavio are true, they lack citations)

No, they're very much libelous and defamatory statements made by either Phelps sympathizers or very far left-wing radicals. 130.184.184.77 17:23, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes made 27-May-2006

Hi. While reading a recent issue (May 8th) of Time (magazine), I noticed a good article about the Guard by David van Biema. I've edited our article to include a reference for the Time article, and made some other changes.

  • "They attend every single U.S. Military funeral for which the family gives permission", not just casualties of the "War on Terror".
  • They started in August 2005.
  • The Guard "today claims 28,000 bikers and supporters".
  • Deleted external link to http://www.ksat.com/news/9259506/detail.html?rss=ant&psp=news with text "possibly the Patriot Guard", because it was an unsubstantiated slur.

The text in double quotes is from the Time article. Time also says "in a culture in which a 24-hour news cycle and habitual political spin can make the most earnest public gesture seem tired or canned, they appear to be the real thing: a spontaneous mass movement." Anyone want to put this into the article?

(Incidentally, Time describes Fred Phelps as "an attention-crazed fanatic", "a kind of paleo-fundamentalist, gay-baiting performance artist" who took Pat Robertson's "already-troubling line" that 9/11 etc are God punishing America and "spun it past the boundary of the outrageous".)

I also copied the current mission statement from the Guard's website, complete with underlining.

Cheers, CWC(talk) 12:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


Nicely done, CWC.  :-) --Beth C. 04:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First person thoughts on a PGR event two days ago.

This memorial day, I was fortunate enough to participate in a PGR mission in rural Western Maryland for a fallen Army Officer. The PGR was professional, nonconfrontational to a fault, and dignified. I found it to be an elegant solution to the sometimes thorny and frustrating matter of unpopular speech. Phelps is clearly allowed to speak his mind (given a landowner who will let him use their space), and at the same time a family needs this at a funeral like they need a hole in their head. Nobody was squeltched, nobody got hurt, and a family was spared insane irrelevant vitriol. As a veteran, a motorcyclist, and a first amendment absolutist, I was honored to be part of this, and I will gladly ride with them whenever they are within my range.
This interesting comment was the first contribution of user 70.106.56.8 (talk • contribs). —CWC(talk) 12:14, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motorcycle Club?

Motorcycle club category? They are not a motorcycle club. They are motorcycle related for sure, but motorcycles are not required, even many leaders don't ride. "Motorcycle Club" has a particular meaning, and Patriot Guards is not it. There is no probabtion. Most MCs require you to ride, and ride a HD. There are no colors. There is no territorial claim.

I suggest "Motorcyclists Organizations" vice MC. 129.53.219.20 00:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC) PGR member WhiteHat

[edit] Umm, I'm confused.

Am I supposed to just know what a hawk or a dove are? I mean beyond the usual understanding that they are both avians. It might be helpful if this could be explained to those of us that might not understand what is meant by being a 'hawk' or a 'dove.' Caladil 16:13, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hawk = pro-war, dove = anti-war. --67.180.56.14 06:21, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I just added links so that anybody else that doesn't know what hawk/dove mean in this context can click and find out. =) 152.23.196.162 02:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whites only ?

Is it true that the Patriot Guards are "whites only" ??? (heard that couple of times) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.214.213 (talk) 10:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Not true. Cheers, CWC 08:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


NO, the PGR is not whites only. I'm a PGR member as is my husband and we are both American Indians. I know of one other American Indian PGR member here in Minnesota. I also know of at least one African American PGR member here in Minnesota. We've had a PGR member from Kansas who is Asian (not sure which nationality) come up for a funeral here in Minnesota when the soldier whose funeral we were attending was Hmong. Honeydog101 11:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Honeydog

[edit] Membership

Dragonwagon 12:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)Membership is open to "ALL" who agree to the mission statement. No motorcycle required, no status as a veteran, or you do not have to be an American citizen. Just agree with the mission statement. WE are an almagamation of all who support our troops. You contribute what you can, no mandatory involvement.

DragonWagon PGR Ride Captain

Thanks Dragonwagon...

I wanted to add to your post

Im a member of the Patriot Guard Riders as well, a hoth coordinator. The Patriot Guard Riders is not a motorcycle club. We are a national organization made up of veterans,regular citzens (like me), folks who ride bikes, folks who do not ride bikes (we call those cagers because they drive 4 wheels) We have members of all sorts of motorcycle clubs. Race matters not. Gender matters not. Age matters not. All that matters is that you have a deep love and respect for those who wear this nations uniform. What does it cost join?...nothing, there are no dues....We simply ask for your dedication in standing for those who stood for us. We also provide support for heroes who have been injured,and our veterans We really enjoy being able to welcome and escort home a unit who has been deployed. The reunion with their loved ones is awesome!

Why do we do what we do?...While we were formed to protect the family from protestors or any other unwanted guest, sometimes that includes the media. Our main objective now is to honor the fallen and comfort their family. Its about respect and gratitude. Gratitude that there are still men and women of integrity who will willingly put on this nations uniform and defend freedom, even if it means paying the ultimate sacrifce.

I salute them!

Freebirdsnsc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Freebirdsnsc (talk • contribs) 22:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP: Christianity?

Why is the Patriot Guard page under the purview of WikiProject Christianity? As I understand it, it's an inclusive organization that welcomes everyone, regardless of age, gender, national origin, vet status, and religion. —Micahbrwn (talk) 22:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, it's been more than a couple days, and there's been no feedback as to why this page warranted an inclusion into WP:Christianity. Hence, I'll be bold and remove it.—Micahbrwn (talk) 04:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The project banner was added by User:John Carter, so, maybe asking him why it was included might help.--Vidkun (talk) 16:10, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Because it's included in the Category:Westboro Baptist Church, an explicitly Christian organization. Whether it should be or not is another matter, and not one I am best equipped to answer. However, if the ties to that Church are relatively tight, then the banner is probably relevant. This is not to say that others might not be as well, but just that that one banner would be if the categorization is particularly relevant. If it isn't, you might want to remove the article from that category. John Carter (talk) 21:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
But the Patriot Guard aren't affiliated with Westboro Baptist Church. This organization was founded in response to the hateful protests that WBC have staged (or attempted to stage) at funerals. Indeed, the Patriot Guard have made appearances at funerals that weren't even Christian to begin with, intending to shield the mourners from WBC. While I agree that Patriot Guard should be in the Westboro Baptist Church category, I disagree with the contention that simply because the two are linked in some way means that a Wikiproject should be involved with every single article pertaining to that topic. That's just my opinion, though. YMMV. —Micahbrwn (talk) 21:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
No disagreement. However, in general, when articles are placed in categories, it's because there's a strong connection. One of the primary reasons I place any banners anywhere is to, eventually, ensure that all the articles get known to relevant projects and assessed. If this article isn't that relevant to that project, no objections to removal of the banner. But, in the event that there ever arise questions regarding the content where you'd want a number of outside voices to come in, it might be in your own best interests to find some project you do deem relevant, so that you can have a more focused point of contact if difficulties ever do arise. John Carter (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
As a PGR member myself, I can assure you that we are not affiliated with the WBC in any way. However, it is true that our original mission was to provide some sort of barrier for grieving families in the face of WBC protests at military funerals. As the WBC is included in the Christianity category, we are just as appropriate to be included, even though - as someone has pointed out - we are open to members of any and all religions, races, creeds, and nationalities. Respectfully, --InDeBiz1 (talk) 19:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)