Talk:Pashtun people/Archive 15

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[edit] some removing from Ancient references

In the Ancient references section we have this paragraph: The Greek historian Herodotus first mentioned a people called Pactyans, living on the eastern frontier of the Persian Satrapy Arachosia as early as the 1st millennium BCE.[19] In addition, the Rig-Veda mentions a tribe called the Pakthas (in the region of Pakhat) inhabiting eastern Afghanistan, and some have speculated that they may have been early ancestors of the Pashtuns.[20] Other ancient peoples linked to the Pashtuns includes the Bactrians who spoke a related Middle Iranian language.

  • No doubt these people once living in today's southern Afghanistan were referred to as Pactyans by Herodotus... but how do we know those were Pashtuns? We don't, that's why I removed that sentence.
  • I checked the link provided to the Rig-Veda, and it merely mentions the word Pakthas, it doesn't say anything about eastern Afghanistan.
  • And the last sentence is unreferenced... though there are references that will relate the Pashto language to the old Bactrian language.

So these are the reasons these 3 sentences were removed. -- Behnam (talk) 10:24, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


Why are you trying to thrust your views to be accepted by deleting so much significant information about Pashtuns by "Herodotus", which had been written thousand of years ago, there might be some authors who have opposed him but on the other hand there are majority of Pashtuns and other non-pashtuns accepted "Pactyans" as today's pashtuns, it is more acceptable to mind as compare to different just imaginary type views, and what is wrong with those brave people of that time, who had fought great wars against Alexander in 327 bc. How come you so sure about the term "Afghan" were Pashtuns, while we didn't see such name in ancient history, the term which you are talking about was not Afghan, according to some historians thse written sentence were first founded on a stone on "Naqsh-e-Rustam" of sasani King "Shahpur first", that was "Gondefra abgan rasmad", still to get the meaning of such sentence - whatever the meaning is but why it has been affixing on Pashtuns, how do you know that Afghans were Pashtuns? According to Frazier Tyler in his book Afghanistan mentioned term afghan (don't know the race), which were further taken from a book "Hudul alam", which had been written by an unknown Geographist in approximately written in 982 AC, hudul alam has also been referenced by different authors aswell, will you avoid an ancient book against hudul alam, which was being written in 982 ac? Pactyans speak Pashto. Do not try to show just one side of the coin, let the readers deside.
Now you will be highly appreciated to take Herodotus and his mentioned Pashtuns back or I will do it myself. Thanks. Haider (talk) 22:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Please first provide a source that links Pactyans to Pashtuns. -- Behnam (talk) 22:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Kindly look up what I have asked you also about how do you know that abagans are afghans, or you are the one also who believe that Pashtuns have more than half a dozen names bieng rewarded by outsiders like Sulemaini, Khurasani, Afghani - why not just pashtun or pakhtun? Are you sure Qais had four sons, one of them was adopted one right? This article had been rated as featured one with herodotus mentioned pashtuns. Afghanistan is a country and people live in them are afghanis so simple, isn't it? If those people once living in a limited area of the region but what and why to attached them with the great pashtuns? Thanks. Haider (talk) 00:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Beh-nam wrote: "Please first provide a source that links Pactyans to Pashtuns." Actually, letting the evidence stand and not drawing the conclusion should be satisfactory. We do have Herodotus's statement. What it means as to how long the Pashtuns have been there is open for discussion, not deletion. --Bejnar (talk) 04:07, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

If you remove the pictures I add then I will get you blocked. There is nothing wrong with the pics and every article has pics so you must leave my pics.Wmmr (talk) 02:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with the pictures, but... there is something wrong with the user that is uploading them and editing this article... he is banned already and should not be editing (user: NisarKand, see article's history). -- 65.93.211.223 (talk) 02:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
You (User:Beh-nam) want to remove the images because you want to only see images of people like Mulla Omar, Gulbuddin, and others like that in this article. This is your plan to try to make the Pashtun image look like uneducated, villains, and criminals but that your ethnic group Tajiks are the educated ones. You are a fraud thinker by doing these things because the world, especially top US government officials already know Pashtuns very well now. This is why USA supports Pashtuns by offering high positions in US government as well as in Afghanistan USA supported Karzai over others. Today, it is what USA says that matters. Every single time you came to edit thhis article, you remove very good useful information, or images of famous Pashtuns, and other such activities. There is no such record of you adding something good to this article. My friendly advice to you is stop this and do something good because in the long run there is nothing you will gain from what you're doing to this or other articles that you vandalise.--Hurooz (talk) 19:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zalmay Khalilzad?

Would Zalmay Khalilzad, who was born in Mazari Sharif, and doesn't even speak Pashto (alhtough he has his roots in Laghman)... be considered a Pashtun? -- Behnam (talk) 03:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

There are ethnic Pashtuns living in Mazari Sharif, and he does speak Pashto. The main language he speaks is English, he also speaks Arabic. His ethnic background should not be questioned when there is a source in his article explaining it. We go by sources not by what you think or assume. The last name "Khalilzad" is 100% Pashtun name, mostly used in southern Afghanistan. Zalmay is also a 100% Pashtun name, with no doubt.--Hurooz (talk) 19:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture conflicts

I'm not sure why there is so much reverting with regards to pictures, but I think we should simply discuss the issue here and figure out which pictures fit well with the article. As far as I know, the Tarzis are pretty well known Pashtuns and show up in a lot of the references I linked to the article so what is the objection? At any rate, we need to resolve this and stop this reverting and counter reverting nonsense please. Thanks. Tombseye (talk) 02:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The one removing pictures is the well known anti-Pashtun who is now indef banned user: Beh-nam. He is using IPs from Canada like this one 64.229.16.84. In the future just revert all his vandalism, his only purpose is to vandalise Pashtun related articles.--Churra 19:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Afghana

Who was "Afghana" and was there any reality to find out such name in jews history, while we can't find any such name in jew King Sauls history, nevertheless some historians mentioned above name in their books without any evidence? Thanks. Haider (talk) 21:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Imran Khan is wrongly included

Imran Khan's family is only a very distant cousin of the pashtun race. He is not a pathan and is wrongly identified here as one. He has somewhat used some generations-old connection to the race to build his image and perpetuate this myth, but he belongs solely to the Niazi Shermankhel tribe. For accuracy, he should be removed from the page, I guess. Busillis (talk) 10:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, it should be removed. Imran Khan is a Niazi and stated so in his autobiography. He also says that Niazis are somehow related to Pathans but that doesn't make him Pashtun officially, or does it? Inf fg (talk) 18:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Afghan and other Pashtun

The Wikipedia article on Pashtuns says they would appear to be primarily of Iranian origin, but have similarities with Persians, Kurds, Tajiks and Baluchis and Arabs.


Pashto-speaking Pashtuns (or Pukhtuns, depending on dialect) and are found in southern and eastern Afghanistan and western Pakistan. These Pashtuns also became intermingled with others groups, such as the Ghilzai (who possibly mingled with Turkic tribes), the Durrani (who interacted with the Tajiks), and Pashtun tribes north of Peshawar (who mingled with Dardic groups).


The article went on to say that from the first to the fifth century BCE huge migrations of peoples from Aryans, Persians, Sakas, Scythians, Kushans, Huns, and Greeks moved into the regions where the Pashtuns lived. Later invaders were Muslim Arabs, Central Asian Turkic tribes and Mongols.


The anthropological evidence that the Pashto-speaking Pashtuns are an Indo-European Caucasoid people, who are related to other Iranian groups and to speakers of the Kalasha and Nuristanis languages, is by no means conclusive. So far the testing has not shown any substantial connection between the Pashtun population sampled to the genetic markers found amongst most Greeks, Jews. The answer may be that Pashtuns have been slightly modified over time by various invaders and mixes as mentioned above. Yet they have kept their eastern Iranian base genetically overall.


There would thus also be Japhethitic R1a and R1b and Hamitic C YDNA present.


Many conclusions concerning the Semites come from the premise that the Semitic Haplogroups are all J .


The Pashtun are classified as Iranian, which as we have seen is primarily Haplogroup I which is derived from the Semitic IJ Haplogroup (see below) but they vary as a typical Central Asian composite YDNA grouping. An attempt was made to classify the Pashtun in the 16th century as one of the Bani Israel, of the Lost Ten Tribes and as Joseph. This was debunked based on their Indo-Iranian affinities and language. However, it is an historical fact that the area of Khandahar, Kabul and Bactria also, on the other side of the Hindu Cush, were made provinces or satrapies of the Persian Empire and their languages are thus affected by that fact. The DNA similarities with Elam and their reported historical descent and affinity with Joktan indicate that the original DNA of the Semites, including the Joktan Hebrews, was not J but F and the primary Semitic derivative is I and the secondary derivatives are J, both derived from IJ (based on S2 and S22) and then H and G. All the Eastern Semites of Elam and Joktan were Hg. I, rather than J. Thus these mutations occurred over the second millennium BCE and the extended mathematical models of the evolutionists are wrong.

some Pashtun tribes claim descent from Arabs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.138.91.2 (talk) 07:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)