Talk:Parry (fencing)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have removed the specific reference to foil in the Classification. For the most part, the French classification is universal. The exception is quinte, which sabreurs do in a radically different way to foilists and epeeists. This is mentioned in the corresponding part of the text. sabreurs don't tend to use pronated parries (apart from quarte), because they don't work against sabre attacks. Consequently, we don't tend to count sixte, septime and octave as "sabre parries". That, however, doesn't alter the fundamental nature of the classification. Cat-o-nine-meows 18 January 09:40 (UTC)

I'm replacing "Right of Way" in this section with "Priority". The word is more accurate, and it won't change the meaning of the section. Kd5mdk 8 July 2005 23:25 (UTC)

Is it really called "priority"? Nobody I fenced with used that term, but then I haven't fenced in four or five years. Isomorphic 9 July 2005 00:45 (UTC)

In short, it is in the rulebook. (I don't speak French, so I can only use the USFA and BFA translations) I have to go to work, but I'll explain my more theoretical reason for liking it later. Kd5mdk 9 July 2005 16:30 (UTC)

Ok. The reason Right of War isn't the best term is that it gives the impression that the person with priority will get the touch. This is usually correct. However, the fencer with priority can still lose the touch through a number of ways, such as a stop hit in tempo, a simultainious action in which they miss, or a parry. Note that in driving, Right of Way cannot be taken away from you by another driver, regardless of what you do. Therefore, I think it represents things better to call it priority, and reflects the rulebook as well. Kd5mdk 21:42, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

A better definition for the word Parry?

Something like,

In fencing, a devensive movement which results in the blocking or turning aside of an offensive action by ones opponent.

BlindEagle42 00:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diagrams

I think that little diagrams would be helpful. If anyone has any free time...

[edit] Origin of parry

Moving this unsourced statement here that was added recently. If someone can cite a source, then let's move this back to the article.

It was named for the first known fencer to defeat an opponent with the move alone, a certain Sir Thomas DeParry of the Netherlands.

Twisted86 03:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Like almost every other fencing term, parry probably either came from the Italian (Parare) or French (Parez), which both basically mean to "block."

[Origin: 1665–75; < F parez, impv. of parer to ward off, set off < L parāre to set.]

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Probably from French parez, imperative of parer, to defend, from Italian parare, from Latin parāre, to prepare; see perə-1 in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

BlindEagle42 00:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parry .vs. Block

Outside of the specialized lingo of fencing, a "parry" is distinct from a "block". A parry redirects or deflects the force of a blow, usually by impact from the side, whilst a block stops the blow completely by interposing an obstacle. This distinction is extremely important in real blade combat because a hard-swung heavy weapon (such as an axe) cannot be blocked with a light weapon (such as a smallsword) but any blow can be parried - some martial arts (shorin-ryu for example) even teach methods for parrying two-handed swords with the unarmored hand. If you try to block a two-handed sword with your unarmored hand, you might slow it down slightly, but you sure won't accomplish the block.

Digrassi (1570) touches upon this point in his chapter on "the means to defend" when he mentions "slipping the blow" and "beating aside the sword", but his main theme is to abjure formulae and act with the means to hand, suiting your defense to the situation in which you are attacked. He does not formally define any distinction.

I have done a (very) small amount of research on the subject, and I cannot find any case where modern collegiate style fencing makes any distinction between blocks and parries. This is to be expected in foil and epee fencing, where all scoring blows are limited to thrusts, but it is somewhat surprising that sabreurs have not preserved some knowledge of the difference.

If a scholar of the fence could determine if fencers have ever distinguished between blocking and parrying, and if so, when they stopped, it would be a valuable addition to this article. Failing that, we should endeavor to keep it clear within this article that a fencing parry can be either redirecting or stopping an enemies' blow.

--Charlie