Talk:Parish
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[edit] 1975
I beleive the parish represents primarily a political or secular system of land division which has been adopted by churches. In Britain the parish was a subdivision of the traditional county until local government was reorganised in 1975. The boundaries of a secular parish may not be now those of any church parish, and churches of different denominations may have different parish boundaries. Laurel Bush 15:23, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC).
But in England, weren't the pre-1975 parishes equivalent to Church of England parishes? john k 15:34, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I imagine the C of E tended to follow secular practice. Or, as the established church, was well placed to negotiate agreement with secular government. My main point is that the parish system of land division had (and has now in some respects) a very secular dimension, and this tends, at present, to be obscured by the article. (I believe in England, actually, parishes survive in many areas for the purpose of electing parish councils.) Laurel Bush 15:47, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC).
Parishes have had secular meaning, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse. In pre-modern days, the most reasonable way to divide up a large unit like a county was based on church parishes, since everyone belonged to one. So they came to be used as a political division because they were already religious divisions. The OED entry on "Parish" supports this, I think. john k 17:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Havent seen the OED entry, but I believe the idea of a parish is Latin, predates any established church, and was in use before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as its religion. Laurel Bush 09:58, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC).
I think it is important for you both to read this article which makes it clear that, prior to 1894, the parish meeting (or vestry as it was called) was the church government for each ecclesiastical (and ancient) parish. The article points out that the vicar was always chairman, and that only the squire and ratepayers (ie the well-off) appeared on it. In 1894 this changed; although it was still skewed in that direction. In 1972 the present system came into being. I think that this Wiki article needs considerable amendments to supply the facts given in the reference. Peter Shearan 19:13, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Structural issues
The civil parish section of this article is paralleling Civil Parish and a wider main article. In addition there is the question of the relationship between parish and Township, which is not adequately explained by that article. There are two difficulties:
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- The worldwide coverage of some of these articles.
- The need to focus on the institution in England (and other parts of Great Britain), whiere the parish remains an active minor local government institution.
Both these are important, but we need to consider how best the articles may be structured, to avoid parallel articels developing separately, each with an independent life of its own. This is liable to lead to contradictory articles! Comments please. Peterkingiron 14:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- Little seems to have been done since I made the above comment, but some one has drawn my attention to it, on the basis that the article began life as "Ecclesisatical Parish". We also have Parish (country subdivision), which provies a good survey of the different applications of the term around the world. I wonder whether the best course might not be for:
- This article to revert to "ecclesiatiscal parish", but shorn of civil sections
- Parish (country subdivision) to be renamed "parish", possibly with the civil sections of this article being merged in if necessary.
- Civil Parish to be shorn of international aspects and confined to England (or perhaps Great Britain).
Comments please. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
