Talk:Parameswara (sultan)
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[edit] Map on srivijaya and majapahit
I doubt the map is correct. It shows both kingdom exerting influence over eastern India and part of Indo-China despite the fact that on India eastern shore, there was the Chola while on Indochina, Khmer Empire. __earth (Talk)
[edit] Mere Rubbish
How can that so called King have Indian name (Parameswara) and being a Hindu if he is Macedonian descendant ? What a Rubbish !!!!!
.:My Reply:.
Rubbish, eh? Have you checked what you have written? What is wrong with you and your grammar, man!? It is not "What a Rubbish!!!!!" It is "What Rubbish" Where did you learn your grammar? A monkey!? Speaking of monkeys, why do you have to complain? People have eyes you know, I bet they SEE that that there was an error. Why do you even bother complaining? Complaining won't get you anything, FYI. And in case you don't know what FYI is, and I bet you probably don't, it means for your information. I hope you learned your lesson, you idiot. Because it is an important one.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.164.32 (talk • contribs)
[edit] Re:Mere Rubbish
I also think it is mere rubbish but I also think it is not completely rubbish. According to the southeast asian history, most of the ancient rulers of this region are Hindus, some rulers came from Persia (map covered Middle east, Greece, west India - Achaemenid Empire, Seleucid Empire, Parthian Empire and Sassanid Dynasty, please look at the size of the map their conquered). Kedah is a good example where the king from Persia came and eventually he built a kingdom.
In the old days, it was slavery society (no sultanate and no democracy yet), all Hindu rulers belong to higher class, common peoples and the natives belong to inferior slave class. The Hindus rulers came from India and Persia and they ruled most of the southeast asia, they called themselves high class peoples, the rest are merely slaves. Parameswara is a Hindu ruler, he is one of the descendants of the Hindu royal family that belong to higher class of Hinduism.
As for the Macedonian bloodline, this is also not completely rubbish. In the old days, the Persian empire was so big, they are so proud with king Alexander the Great. Also, they ruled some of the southeast asian lands such as the Angkor, Pasai, etc. Parameswara later married Pasai's princess and adopted Persian Shah and claimed as descendant of Alexander the Great, I don't think all this is completely rubbish.
Anyway, please correct me, I may be wrong too. L joo 03:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think Alexander has any descendant. His sons died young without issue. see that article to check it out.Wai Hong 12:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
In the old days, the meaning of "Descendant of Alexander the Great" could be another definition/meaning, maybe it refers to the ancient Persians or the ancient Indian tride, immortality, etc. In ancient China, every Chinese are "Sons of Yellow Emperor", even today there are some Chinese calling themselves "Descendant of Dragon", which is totally incorrect in the eyes of modern peoples. Therefore I believe the "Parameswara is Descendant of Alexander the Great" is not completely rubbish. Anyway, I may be wrong again. L joo 08:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- It's not a matter of whether it's true Parameswara was the descendant of Alexander. What matters here is that The Malay Annal alleges he was. For us to discuss it, it's okay. But to include such discussion into the article however would probably border original research. __earth (Talk) 11:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- If the Malay Annal alleges he was, then Malacca and Macedonia are brother of same family and same bloodline, that's why I said it is not 'mere rubbish'. L joo 14:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
.:My reply:.
Why don't you just stop complaining!? No one's perfect.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.87.164.32 (talk • contribs)
- My 2 cents' worth:
"Iskandar" in Arabic means "Alexander". Parameswara took that title after converting to Islam. So the whole "descendant of Alexander" thing may be an embellishment (possibly suggested by Parameswara himself) which worked its way into the Sejarah Melayu. BTW "Sejarah" = History/Annal and "Melayu" = Malay in Malay. But certainly if the SM alleges a bloodline, then that's what it SAYS, not necessarily that it is PROVEN FACT.24.190.18.123 23:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Re: Hindu-Macedonian bloodlines
I found several pages re the Hindu-Macedonian relationships:
Although not directly Alexander's, I suppose it's possible that Parameswara has Indo-Greek bloodlines. XoXo 17:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Notes to Year of Death and other updates of 2 June 2007
Update made based on information from National Library of Malaysia website. Info is also confirmed from http://www.asiaexplorers.com/malaysia/malacca_history.htm and from http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/parames.htm. 218.111.48.42 18:00, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
More evidence of Megat being the son and 1414 being date of Parameswara's death described in Muzaffar Tate's article http://161.139.39.251/akhbar/history/1999/st99802.htm
In fact, it is the Ming chronicles of the Malacca embassies to Beijing of 1411 and 1414 which resolved the question of the year of Parameswara's death. For the 1411 embassy was headed by Parameswara in person. But the Ming records inform us that the embassy of 1414 was headed by his son, Raja Menawar, who came seeking Chinese recognition of his accession to the throne as Megat Iskandar Shah.
As a result of over a century of sleuth-like academic research, we now have a reasonably coherent story regarding Parameswara and his times.
Unquote:
60.49.107.255 16:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Cleanup
This article needs to be cleaned up. Similar info need to be integrated, grammar should be improved.--Wai Hong 12:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Malay or Javanese?
How come the article says that he was a Malay prince, when the history part says it clearly that he was a prince from Majapahit, a great-grandson of Empress Tribhuwana Wijaya Tunggadewi, who was somehow stationed in Srivijaya after it became a tributary to Majapahit? It means he was of Javanese ethnicity, not of Malay ethnicity. Matahari Pagi 10:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)d
[edit] Why not called Malaccan?
Parameswara is the founder of Malacca Kingdom and later the founder of Sultanate of Malacca because he married Pasai's princess. But strange, he was never recognized as a Malaccan, why? The American founded America and they called themsleves American because they think America is proud, better than England. But the whole world called Parameswara a Malay/Melayu, NOT a Malaccan. Someone please explain/analyse?
My lousy personal opinion is:
- For Parameswara, Sultanate of Malacca is just a trading port to manipulate the Pasai muslims traders. Deep in his heart, he is still Orang-Srivijaya, he loves his father, mother and ancestors. What important to him is Srivijaya of his family, not a remote trading port. The name of Pasai princess was not even mention.
- Later sultans of Malacca too did not call themselves a Malaccan.
- Nobody in Malaysia today is a Malaccan.
- Melayu is much more important than Malacca, so that the name Melayu is still in use.
- And where is this 'Melayu' originated?
L joo 04:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- Although I bet he felt he was a Malay more than anything else, in truth he really was not. His ancestors were Javanese Kings and Queens of Majapahit Empire.
- The origin of "Melayu" is Melayu Kingdom, which is now Jambi, a province in Indonesia.
Matahari Pagi 08:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
In 832 AD, Rakai Pikatan (also called Jatiningrat), crown prince of neighbouring Sanjaya kingdom, married Pramowardhani, daughter of king Samaratungga, Sailendra's last king. When Samaratungga died in 850 AD, Rakai Pikatan seized the Sailendra throne n usurped the Sailendra kingdom. Samaratungga's infant son, Balaputra, whose mother was a Srivijayan princess, was taken into refuge into the forest. 18 years later, Balaputra attempted to regain his throne, but his attempt failed.
Balaputra fled to Palembang n eventually became king of Srivijaya, when the old king died. From the the line of Balaputra was born Srivijaya's last prince, Parameswara, several centuries later, who fled to Melaka when Palembang was attacked by Javanese invaders. Parameswara eventually became the 1st king of the Melaka kingdom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.42.76 (talk) 03:19, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Remained Hindu till his death
He in the year 1409 accepted the Pesian title Sultan Iskandar Shah but he remained a Hindu till his death (who can proof this)? So, is he a Hindu-Muslim? Detonqutei 00:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Tamil or Malay
There seems to be a little bit of confusion about Parameswara's ethnic identity. Was he a Tamil Hindu or a Malay Hindu? Depending on the answer, his son Megat Iskandar Shah will be categorised as a Tamil Muslim or a Malay Muslim.Anwar (talk) 12:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
