Talk:Palme d'Or

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Film Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Films. This project is a central gathering of editors working to build comprehensive and detailed articles for film topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the priority scale.
Editing Guidelines Please remember these guidelines when editing a film article: If a non-film article already exists with the name of the film that you are trying to create an article for, disambiguate and use (film) in the title: Film Title (film) For more information see: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films) When writing an article about a particular film, the general format should be a concise lead section, followed by a plot summary of no more than 900 words, production details, a cast list, a reception section, and references. Create an Infobox that tells all pertinent information about the film.
Additional Information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no This article has been identified as a core article. Large improvements may make editors eligible for awards. Related task forces (general): Film awards task force Festival task force Related task forces (nations and regions): French cinema task force

Contents 1 Improvement drive 2 The Winners List 3 Country 4 spelling 5 Films before 1955 6 Stub articles 7 1946 8 Mistake 9 Flags

[edit] Improvement drive

A related topic, Pulp Fiction, is currently nominated on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for this article.--Fenice 06:51, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Winners List

WOuld it be a good idea to turn it around, so that the most recent winner is on top? NuclearFunk 02:15, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Country

Its a fair compromise I think to just list 'nationality of director', because most european films are co-productions anyway, but i would agree that flags are a little distracting —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icanseeformilesandmiles (talk • contribs) 05:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Why films produced by several countries are listed as only one country production?--SylwiaS | talk 18:11, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It's a little simplistic to call The Wind That Shakes The Barley a UK film. Perhaps it would complicate the "winners from country of origin" section of the article and that's why it's being treated as such. Let's face it, probably a quarter of these films are co-productions.

This is indeed a problem. Many of these films are co-productions. It's not like the Academy Award for Best Foreign Film, where each submission is officially submitted by the government of one specific country. In Cannes, films are not submitted by governments, so many cannot be described as the product of one country. So, for example, the official Cannes website correctly lists The Piano as from Australia, France and New Zealand,[1] whereas this article simplifies to New Zealand. I think the 'country' column ought to be removed, along with the accompanying statistics, even though somebody has put a lot of work into them. Cop 633 16:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Since there were no objections I removed the country stats. Cop 633 02:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spelling

Should this article be named Palme d'Or or Palme d'or? The official website uses Palme d'Or in French and in English. French Wikipedia uses Palme d'or. Shawnc 04:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think it should be Palm d'Or. It would be "Golden Palm" in English, not "golden Palm".--SylwiaS | talk 20:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Article has been renamed as Palme d'Or. Shawnc 07:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Really, it is not a 'UK' film, given that the article for the film itself describes it as an 'irish' film.

[edit] Films before 1955

Should the films before 1955 be listed here and/or categorized under Category:Palme d'Or winners? Shawnc 06:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I adjusted the tables to do this. Cop 633 01:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stub articles

Many of the awarded films have only a very rudimentary stub. Please, help develop these stubs, so that Palme s'Or Awards becomes worth mentioning along with Academy, Golden Globe, BAFTA and other Awards. Hoverfish 10:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1946

Why are seven films listed for 1946, then none until 1955? What is actually going on here? Cop 633 22:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering too. This is what I found: [2] Hoverfish 23:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, looks like they were simply indecisive in 1946 or changed the rules or something. Cop 633 15:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

To me it looks like they tried to catch up after WWII. They wanted to start in 1939, so this makes seven years of waiting, so maybe it's a film per year. The article also states that there was no award given in 1947, yet the site gives 5 Grand Prix to 5 film categories: [3]. Looks like the article has to be updated. Hoverfish 16:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Right... you'd think they would have awarded a film from each year between 1939-46, rather than 7 films from 1946! But I guess that would have missed the point of a film festival for new films. It would be nice to find some 'official' explanation to confirm this. Cop 633 16:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

So now I have it in more detail: Men Without Wings is a 1943 film, Torment is 1944, 6 films are 1945 and 2 are 1946. Portrait of Maria (1944) was not awarded as film, but the Director got the Gran Prix for it. So it's not 7 but 10 films plus one director here. It looks like they fixed the rules in 1949. I have no more detailed sources as for the reasons given. Hoverfish 17:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mistake

I corrected a huge mistake in the lead of the article and inside the templates. The Golden Palm was NEVER awarded from 1964 to 1974, only the Grand Prix, due a dispute on Golden Palm's design copyrights. See official site.Parallel33 00:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)Parallel33

Well spotted! Do you have a source for the 'design copyright' problem? It would be interesting to put in the article. Cop 633 00:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Cop! Unffortunately I don't have this source right now, so I didn't mention it in the lead, but everybody who works in film industry (Europe) knows that. I'll work hard in this source, is really interesting to put in the article. The new chronologic order you made is fine, better than mine. :-) Parallel33 00:39, 18 April 2007 (UTC)Parallel33

[edit] Flags

I hate to say this, because someone has put a lot of work into it, but I think putting flags next to the directors is a bad idea. It's too simplistic, and doesn't always reflect their actual nationality or the nationality of the film. As an example, putting a German flag next to William Wyler because he was born in Germany (a) makes Friendly Persuasion look like a German film when it isn't, and (b) obscures the fact that he was an American citizen working in Hollywood. Similarly, putting a Greek flag next to Costa-Gavras is fair enough in that he was Greek, but obscures the fact that Missing is an American film about Chile. I'm sure we can find a comprise but please read WP:FLAGS for some important points to consider. Cop 663 14:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry about that mistakes. I tried to use the most appropriate flag in each case (for example using USSR or czechoslovakia flags) but I screwed up in those, probably some other, but i'm sure with everybody's help we can decide which is the best fitting flag in each case. I put the flags because, as I stated in the edit, I think it is interesting the remark the internationality of the Festival. It's not like the Oscars or the Golden Globes were 95% is American, sometimes British. I don't know, consider the flag proposition; and if you really feel that the article is better without them, I'll undo the edits. In the other hand, if we leave them, feel free to change those you think are wrong.--Wafry 23:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Also one more thing. It seems as in Cannes they reward the director for the film, not the producers, so that is why I used the nationality of the director (and put it right to his or her name) for the flag. But, as you state above, sometimes can be misleading.--Wafry 23:48, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, I do understand what you were doing and I agree that it's interesting to show the international nature of the festival. But flags are like using a sledgehammer: they are very simplistic, and reduce complex situations to blunt statements. E.g. I'm sure William Wyler's German upbringing was important to him, but he is better described as a German-American than either German or American. And there's no flag for German-Americans.

Another problem with flags is that because they are eye-catching, readers may assume they refer to the film, not the director. A third problem is recognizability: some of the flags are not well known, e.g. Bosnia's flag, so it's actually a nuisance for the reader unless you include the country name.

Anyway, my basic point is: words are better than flags. We could try using words, and see how they look, e.g. adding "(Greek)" or "(French)" after director's names instead of flags. For Wyler we could add "(German-American)". This would (a) be more accurate and (b) the words would appear after the director's names so they wouldn't be mistakenly applied to the film. However I admit it would also be less pretty. :(

This is just my opinion: let me know what you think. Cop 663 00:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, if I have to choose between nothing and just the country names, I prefer nothing. Writing the nationality by the directors' name will clutter the table too much (unless we remove the original names of the films in brackets, which take much space). I wanted something flashy that gave the idea to the reader with just one glance that this is like a multicultural film reunion where any nation or country can enter the contest. However, I realise that this is an encyclopedia, not a show, so if it's going to be problematic, I will not have a problem with removing them. In any case, if you don't mind, let's leave it as it is now and wait a few days and see if someone pops in and gives his opinion. If no one else speaks, we will remove them. BTW, when i was writing this I rembered that in other wikipedias they do have flags, although they write the names of the country at the side: es:Palma de Oro fr:Palme d'or --Wafry 01:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Definitely let's leave it a while. By the way, another alternative is to have the flag come after the director's name, with the country name also, thus solving at least two problems. See here for an example. It does clutter things a bit, but I would be happy to delete the original titles of the films, which are a bit unnecessary. And if you are listing nationalities, flags can be useful navigational tools, I admit. Doesn't quite solve the William Wyler problem but it's a thought. Cop 663 01:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, seems like nobody has anything to say. I'd say your proposition of listing the director nationality is ok, and those flags which can be controversial, let's discuss them. I'll start tomorrow changing the template.--Wafry 21:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I already changed it. I have some doubts about Costa-Gavra and Roman Polansky's nationalities, though.--Wafry 19:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Nice work! I can't see any obvious problems. Polanski was a French citizen when he made The Pianist so that's probably the correct appropriate for him. Cop 663 20:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)