Talk:PAL

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Contents

[edit] Film to PAL speedup pitch

Depending on the sound system in use, it also increases the pitch of the soundtrack by 70.67 cent — ⅔ of a semitone, which only the minority of people with absolute pitch will notice.

I can hear the difference and I'm practically tone-deaf... Also the telecine page calls the pitch difference "noticeable". Is there a source for the claim that only people with absolute pitch can notice the change? Msgohan 08:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Tagged as needing citation. Acdx 19:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
"70.67 cent — ⅔" is incorrect. A 4% increase in frequency will make more of a difference on very low notes, but not so such on high notes. For example, the note A2 has a frequency of 110hz, add 6hz and you're playing the next note up which is a Bb2. However if you add 6hz to an A5 (which is 880hz), then your no where near a Bb5 (which is 932.3hz).

Msgohan is correct. The notion that the speedup is barely perceptible is utter nonsense (and likely invented by a PAL user) and I am tried of seeing people who have no business talking about human audition perpetuate this myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.31.170.239 (talk) 12:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see some detail in the article on the speed difference. I listen to fan-made audio commentaries for movies and TV, and the 4% or so (in my practical experience, it's about 3%) difference is a major point of difficulty and confusion. Sharecrow and RiffTrax have actually created software to keep the commentary in synch with the movie. --Tysto (talk) 11:01, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
It's discussed in Broadcast television systems. The speed up has to do with frame rates, thus it applies to all 25 Hz television standards, including some that don't use PAL colour encoding, and excluding some that do. It has nothing to do with PAL per se (even though it's commonly but misleadingly called "PAL speedup"), as PAL does not define frame rates at all. This is why it's not discussed in this page. Anorak2 (talk) 08:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Countries

I added Greece as a PAL country. Although many sources still point it as a SECAM country, it has actually been dual-standard for some time, while today almost all TV stations and TV sets are designed for PAL operation and dual-standard TV sets are becoming rare, but I don't have the exact date of the transition... EpiVictor 10:07, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I added Romania under PAL B/D category. I removed Sardinia because the idea of a list with countries and territories is to list territories, when there is no nation-wide standard (which is not the case for Italy).

Gbuteler89: I'm from Paraguay, and from what I heard and have confirmed, Paraguay is actually broadcasting in PAL-B format. This was confirmed by a visit to a local TV station, where consoles read the transmission format was "PALB". I think I should move Paraguay on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gbuteler89 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

It would be best if you could reference it first. Girolamo Savonarola 04:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Dear Gbuteler89: Paraguay, Uruguay and Argentina, inside the TV stations (professional level) they work in PAL-B, but the domestic transmission is made in PAL-N to the home TV sets, through a transcoder in the transmitter. Then the TV system used in these countries is PAL-N. Remember the Americas are the Region 2 of the UIT, and have only 6 MHz per channel. Vmsa (talk) 01:03, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Encoding

The statement that PAL has 625 lines per frame is incorrect. Yes, the standard dictates 625 lines but only 576 lines are viewable, the rest being used for information such as sync data and captioning. PAL DVDs are MPEG-2, not PAL standard. The PAL classification merely indicates they have 576 lines at 25fps, and as such aren't 625 lines at all. Defsac 10:05, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

The introduction says "SECAM (which is very similar to PAL...)", while the first sentence under Technical Details says "The basics of PAL and the NTSC system are quite similar; the SECAM system, on the other hand, is quite different from both of the others." This is contradictory and should be made consistent. I don't know enough about the technical details to make a proper correction. --Ghewgill 13:06, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

It stems from the confusion of colour standards and the informal usage of the term "PAL" to describe a 625/50 signal, which is quite widespread but, strictly speaking, wrong. Some authors aren't quite consistent about this. Of couse, SECAM colour encoding - usually! - rides on a 625/25 signal, as PAL does - usually. From this point of view they are "similar". But the actual colour encoding - which is what PAL and SECAM are really about - are completely different. In this respect, PAL is much more similar to NTSC. Someone feels to correct the article accordingly? Regards Anorak2 13:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Done. Anorak2 12:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Acronyms

Should any one interested putting something like this?

NTSC: Never Twice Same Color PAL: Perfection At Last

I heard this from an old friend once working in thompson. So it should be related information :)


(In the old Commodore Amiga days we said: PAL = pay additional luxury ;-)

Perhaps, but I don't think it really fits in the short introduction...in this and the NTSC article, it immidiatly seems as if PAL is unquestionably the best system. 84.48.18.24 11:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


Hey guys,

I ran accross the article selling the innovation: french and german color tv devices in the 1960s by patrick fridenson [[1]]

that's what it says on the PAL and SECAM: The first movers were Americans, because America represented the largest potential marketf or color TV. They consisted on one side of RCA and on the other of a group of firms working with the TV network CBS. For the sake of production costs and viewers' interests, RCA called for a unified system, which was reached in 1953 by a committee which gathered representatives of some twenty companies and labs and was named NTSC (National Television System Committee). However, this system had many practical drawbacks, and it was soon nicknamed "Never The Same Color". The challengers were the Frencha nd the Germans. They invented ways to correct the color variations of NTSC. The paradox is that although Radio Industrie and Telefunken, the French and German companies which earlier had separately developed black and white TV devices, were now working together on color TV, they finally gave birth to two different devices: the French SECAM (its French nickname was "Supreme Effort Against America") and the German PAL (called by the French "German Provocation").

Is it worth putting that in the articles about PAL and SECAM.

[edit] Hong Kong and China

Hong Kong uses "PAL-I" and China uses "PAL-D". I have never heard of "PAL-CN". -Hello World! 16:32, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

It is indeed PAL-I that's used in both Hong Kong and Macau. -Broccoli 22:33, August 20, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Date of Introduction

The article claims PAL was launched in 1967. BBC Two in the UK started broadcasting monochrome 625-line video in 1964. It later went to full-colour PAL (without breaking the old system). Do the monochrome broadcasts qualify as 'PAL', and shouldn't this be mentioned?

No they don't. Monochrome 625/50 is not PAL, the term was unknown before the introduction of colour. Incidentally, the UK and France were latecomers to that standard. Most of mainland Europe has been broadcasting 626/50 since 1950 or thereabout. Anorak2 13:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
As a point of interest, PAL colour was under test by the BBC throughout 1965. I believe these tests were made on a 'spare' uhf frequency [which would nowadays be used for BBC-1, or ITV-1]. Colour was not introduced on BBC-2, until it had been fully tested, and technical conditions observed. Also, a b/w transmission is colourless, so can be received on any television set, provided it meets the transmission system [e.g. B/G, I etc.] requirements. (RM21 00:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC))

[edit] PAL60

According to this page: http://www.cube-europe.com/special.php?sid=techfaq , PAL60 runs at the standard PAL resolution, not at the lower NTSC one. Is this correct, or is this mode specific to the GameCube?

PAL-60 from regular VCRs or DVD players outputs 525 scan lines at 30 frames/60 half-frames per second, and only converts the colour to PAL at 4.43 MHz. The whole point of this signal is to enable VCRs to play NTSC to PAL TVs, but cheaply. It relies on the fact that most TVs can be persuaded to sync to almost any resolution and frame rate, but they need the colour in their native system anyway. Changing the original resolution before outputting the image would defeat the whole "cheapo" point of PAL-60, as it would involve expensive circuitry. The downside is that you get a non-standard signal that no other device can record. I don't know what the GameCube does (the page appears to be gone), but if it doesn't give a 525/60/PAL signal it's not PAL-60 "as we know it". Anorak2 13:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Very few TV tuner cards or video capture cards will support this mode (a small number can although software/driver modification is usually required and the manufacturers specs are usually unclear).

Is there any website listing those which do ? According to this it is possible to determine form the chipset but how does one know (without a LOT of digging) which cards use which chipsets 87.113.71.20 21:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] en_US vs en_GB

Both American and British spellings of "color"/"colour" are used. Might as well pick one and stick with it for the entire article. - Shadowhillway 23:35, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy is to attempt to retain consistency with whichever version of English was used first... unfortunately, I can't tell which, because for some reason although the history lists the "earliest" version (circa 2001), there are clearly versions before that (click 'previous revision' on the claimed earliest version). And it's mixed back then.
Fourohfour 09:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
How about since PAL is the European/global video standard that British spelling be used? But then should NTSC be spelled out "Never Twice the Same Color" regardless of which article it's in because NTSC is American?
Shadowhillway 20:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Your logic seems sound, but I'm sure someone could come up with a good counter-case if they were so inclined. Best stick to policy if someone can figure out how to view the earliest versions of the article; otherwise, consistency is still better than nothing.
Fourohfour 23:50, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
PAL is of European origin. I feel that British or Irish English should be used. --Evice 02:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
May as well be consistent; unless someone can show that the first version used US English, I vote we should just go with Commonwealth English then. Fourohfour 11:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
What's the difference between British and Irish spelling of "colour"? :> Anorak2 13:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resolution chart

The chart of resolution and high-def info at the bottom makes no sense to the uninitiated.

[edit] Spelling; two week deadline

Unless anyone has any objections, let's settle on a consistent spelling system; this appears to be the earliest version in the list (although for some reason you can select an "older" version, its date is actually later, so this is probably a bug somewhere).

It uses a mix of UK and US spellings. Since the "Wikipedia is American" argument doesn't wash (the contributors are a mix, and Wikipedia's own policy is that the earlier spelling is used- not useful in this case as original article had a mix), let's vote on this once and for all, and have it over by the New Year.

Votes:-

  • UK (commonwealth) spelling. Fourohfour 22:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
  • PAL is a European system (mostly German actually) but US use NTSC so it should use the UK spelling, consistently. David | Talk 13:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't see why there has to be consistent spelling in the first place. Tolerance dictates that we don't marginalize any type of English. dsandlund 11:51, February 12 2006 (CET)

[edit] Television resolution

The diagram at the end of this article suggests that NTSC is 640x480 and PAL is 720x576. I find this to be quite inaccurate. DV is 720x480 for NTSC and 720x576 for PAL.

dsandlund 09:26, February 12 2006 (CET)

Actually the inclusion of the diagram makes no sense at all in the context of this article. The terms "PAL" and "NTSC" have more than one meaning. One is an informal usage for TV resolutions, but that is not what the text is about, which it clarifies in the first paragraph. This article is about PAL the colour television system independent of resolution questions.
Concerning the diagram, it is not wrong but perhaps misleading as it claims pixel counts for television signals. But analogue TV signals have no pixels. They have horizontal scan lines, but along each line the signal is continuous. So-called "PAL" signals have 625 scan lines, 50 of which are black, leaving 575 lines with picture content (usuually digitised as 576). So-called "NTSC" signals have 525 lines, 45 of which are black, leaving 480 visible. Pixels only come into play when you decide to digitise the signal. The number of columns you choose is arbitrary, as long as they are enough to satisfy the sampling theorem. 720 and 768 columns are values that are often chosen and actually standardises for some digital video formats, but neither is "more correct" than the other. Anorak2 11:13, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I know how the analog systems work. My objection was with the diagram and how it suggests a considerably greater difference in resolution between PAL and NTSC than what is true. Having a diagram as a guide for comparing formats is quite relevant imo, you just need to calculate it in a fair way. dsandlund 03:13, February 13 2006 (CET)
I vote for Anorak2's explanation about 768x576 and 720x576 to be included in the main article. I've been looking for that all over Wikipedia and I only found it here. 190.19.15.125 (talk) 20:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. But I suggest to include that discussion in Broadcast television systems, and move all other discussions of image resolution frm PAL to that article as well. PAL should include a heading which instructs readers that PAL is about colour only, and that image resolution and frame rates are discussed elsewhere, with appropriate links. The confusion of the two subjects is driving me mad. :) Anorak2 (talk) 09:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The confusion arises because NTSC (an analogue system) has a maximum bandwidth of 4 MHz. This compares to at least 5 for PAL. Howerever 525 and 625 line digital video (which are NOT NTSC and PAL use a common 720 pixels digitising system. A higher digitising rate does not mean more bandwidth (which is restriced by the original source) and should not be confused with the bandwidth of NTSC and PAL encoded systems.

The diagram doesn't belong here. PAL is a colour system, it doesn't define resolution at all. Like all analogue colour systems it can be combined with any monochrome television standard, such as 625 or 525 lines; PAL has also been tested with 405 lines. The inclusion of the diagram in this article confuses readers to believe that PAL is about resolution, which is exactly what they shouldn't believe because it's wrong. The diagram is very useful as such, but it belongs on pages who deal with basic television standards where scan lines and bandwidths are discussed, such as Broadcast television systems. Curiously it's missing there. Anorak2 (talk) 09:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Quite agree, the diagram should be removed from this article. Also, the article would need a cleanup to remove all that irrelevant talk about lines and frame rate. PAL is a color encoding standard, it does not prescribe anything about lines per frame or frames per second. Jaho (talk) 04:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
You encouraged me to do just that. Hope everyone is pleased with the result. Anorak2 (talk) 13:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] question

will a NTSC DVD player work with a PAL television and vice-versa?

In the general case,. An NTSC player outputs an NTSC signal which the PAL TV will not "understand", and vice versa. At best you get a black&white picture, possibly rolling and distorted.
However, since the 1990s most TVs sold in PAL countries are multi-standard to varying degrees. Most will be able to accept NTSC signals as input. Likewhise, DVD players sold in PAL markets are usually multi-standard. With most of these, you can even select what signal format they should output.
The reverse is not necessarily true for TVs and DVD players sold in NTSC markets. Anorak2 12:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Since DVD players and modern televisions are normally capable of being interconnected as RGB with Scart plugs, they are neither PAL nor NTSC since no subcarrier is used. Most modern sets can sync to 50 or 60 Hz so there should be no compatibility issue.

[edit] compatibility between UK (PAL I ) AND Belgium (Pal B,G,)

Hello,

I hope somebody can help me! I am moving from the UK to live in Brussels/Belgium. I am considering buying a TV in the UK to take with me, but have learnt that they may not be compatible. Please can you advise if a PAL-I TV will work fully in Belgium,thanks,Eroonie.

No, it won't. Unless it's a PAL B/G/I multistandard tv. MrTroy 09:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
No it won't, you won't get sound as the audio frequency is in a different place; this is true for both the mono as well as stereo (NICAM) versions. Also Belgium has VHF transmitters which a UK set can't pick up. Incidentally most of Belgium has cable, but there the same is true. There are probably some multi standard sets with an "all Europe" tuner, but if you don't know what to look out for, chances are you'll buy the wrong set.
Incidentally Belgium is migrating to digital terrestrial television (DVB-T) for which you'll need a set-top box; this too is best bought in Belgium, as UK ones might not tune some of the channels (otherwhise they're OK). Anorak2 11:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
A few UK set-top boxes may work (but no promises!!) in Europe (B/G is used in most of Belgium, Netherlands, Germany etc.). The box would be able to receive the input OK, but may only be able to convert the sound output if it's multi-standard. Some makes, such as SAGEM are multi-standard, but check before you buy. Also, maplin.co.uk sell some multi-standard handheld tv's. Better still, get a continental tv/box. (RM21 00:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC))
Although multi standard sets are improving the situation a bit, the best way to avoid unpleasant surprises is still to buy a tv set in the country where it will be used. There is too many factors that play a role to make guarantees: frame/line frequency, color encoding system, color subcarrier frequency, vision polarity, audio modulation system, audio carrier separation, video bandwidth, sideband suppression, VHF/UHF channel layout and spacing, teletext/closed captioning standard, aspect ratio, and more. Even an experienced tv technician makes mistakes with so many factors. Jaho (talk) 03:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PAL speed-up

[edit] How will PAL to NTSC converter correct the effect?

Which effect is refered to in the paragraph where it is said that "hardware is also available to correct this effect? Is it about the speed up effect or the telecine judder effect? Either way it should be said more accurately what can be done with that hardware. I don't see how converting signal from PAL to NTSC would fix the speed up effect. It might be that the whole paragraph should be removed. It seems like a misplaced advertisement. 81.197.16.160 05:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

A PAL to NTSC converter cannot correct the speed up after it has been applied. The converted video will show it too. A theoretical hardware solution would be to play the video at 24fps (i.e. non-standard, would require a modified VCR) and apply a realtime frame conversion to 25fps. That would result in a video at proper speed, but probably with some bad judder effects (which is the main reason why it's not done). Tenlab company sells no such thing, just regular standards converters. So IMHO the paragraph should be removed. Anorak2 16:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speed up vs artifacts

I changed the "many" to "some" when discussing whether or not movie enthusiasts prefer speed up to artifacts. "Many" introduces a value assessment that is difficult for this encyclopedia to claim. The sources are not entirely encyclopedic and, given that they are both from web sites apparently hosted in PAL countries, they are more likely to share the same criticisms of artifacts. Additionally, to attempt to place further impact on the statement, "movie enthusiast" would have to be defined. This is likewise a difficult task given the wide range of self-described enthusiasts, enthusiasts who refuse to associate with certain others, etc. -user:rasd

I agree, as sources for "many" those aren't encyclopedic - you would need a research indicating there are many people believing PAL is better. However, for "some", those are perfectly good sources.
And of course (almost) only people in PAL areas prefer PAL - the complete lack of compatibility prevents people in NTSC countries to playback PAL material. Most PAL equipment, on the other hand, is compatible with NTSC - so the preference of PAL people for PAL isn't based on incompatibility with NTSC. MrTroy 15:45, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compatibility Between USA (NTSC) and Turkey(PAL..)

Somebody help me please! I'm about to buy a new JVC hardrive camcorder in United States,and I want to learn that it works in Turkey which is in Europe and using PAL...it's written NTSC,as the analog video format on the camcorder..Do I have some problems about that,should I buy it or what I'm going to do???

No they're completely incompatible. Don't import NTSC equipment into the PAL world or vice versa, you'll have problems either way. Anorak2 10:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course your camera will WORK in Turkey (or any other country in the world) but anything you record on it may not be viewable on a TV set IN Turkey but will of course be viewable on an NTSC ser when you return to the USA80.229.222.48 19:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move list of countries to a separate article?

I think the "PAL#Countries and territories that use PAL B, G, D or K" section is getting long and cumbersome, and should be moved to a separate article. Ideas?

I agree... "List of countries and territories that use PAL"... does that sound right? --StuartBrady (Talk) 03:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Illustrations

I was wondering if an illustration of a phase error would improve the article... So I've knocked up two images [2][3], which show normal and alternated phase respectively, with a 20 degree phase error. Any thoughts on these? --StuartBrady (Talk) 03:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Layout

Just reading through the article, it is all ok until you get to Multisystem PAL support this seems to be out of context, the rest of section 2 needs re-ordering I think --GeorgeShaw 14:04, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indonesia / Hong Kong / Singapore

Indonesia, Hong Kong, and Singapore use PAL for broadcasting. However they use NTSC-J for gaming. Maybe, it's worth mentioning--w_tanoto 00:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Argentina

I'm Argentine, I've been working at TV stations and I've never seen a station broadcasting in NTSC as the article says. Usually PAL-B/G is used inside the stations and transcoded to PAL-N just before being broadcasted. ¿Why does the article mention NTSC, is it an error? Barcex 21:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

........

I'm Argentine too, and I can confirm that. Besides, what is this story about PAL-Nc being used in Argentina: "the PAL-Nc (combination N) variant is used. The same 625-line system as PAL-G,D,G,H, and I is used with the same 4.43 MHz colorburst frequency. [...] In Paraguay and Uruguay, PAL is used with the standard 625 line system, but again with (very nearly) the NTSC colour subcarrier frequency (3.58 MHz); this variant is called and PAL-N."

As far as I know Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay use exactly the same PAL-N system, with a 3.58 MHz color subcarrier. Argentina devised the system in the 1970s, and it was adopted by the neighboring countries, unmodified.

Daniel_C 18:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong TV format in pixels

PAL is NOT 720x576, because PAL and NTSC does not got a fixed X-axis resolution. With analog broadcasted PAL you cannot display 360 (720/2) distinct lines because of bandwith limitation.

Hence the image comparing different TV formats is wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.140.106.124 (talk) 12:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

That's right. PAL is an analogue system which has (at least hirizontally) bandwidth but no pixels. If you're talking about digital 625 line systems THAT IS NOT PAL! 5Mz (the system bandwidth for B and G) would resolve only 260 horizontal lines.

[edit] 3:2 Pulldown

However, some movie enthusiasts prefer PAL speed-up over NTSC's 3:2 pulldown, because the latter results in telecine judder, a visual distortion not present in PAL speed-up video. This is not an issue on modern upconverting DVD players and PCs, as they play back 23.97fps-encoded video at its true frame rate, without 3:2 pulldown.

Surely most PC monitors will be set to 60Hz or higher, which will necessitate the use of repeated frames in the same manner as the pulldown process, only progressively rather than interlaced? Wouldn't this result in exactly the same kind of 'judder' as on an ordinary television?

172.142.32.137 14:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

3:2 pulldown doesn't change the frame rate (24 to 23.97 a minimal difference), it just adapts it to a 60Hz interlaced display, by reducing the repeated frames issue. On progressive displays motion judder can still be present if the frame rate in not set to a multiple of the original (for example 72Hz (24Hz*3)). The pulldown removal only restores the original 24fps progressive signal. Hope this helpsRicnun 14:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] right there in the beginning

picture always lousy? i never heard that...

[edit] Can a TV with PAL system be used in a country with NTSC system?

I have a European 50ïnch LCD TV (manufactured 2005) that I'd like to use in the USA. MY TV system is PAL but this discussion page mentions conflicting data as to whether PAL systems would work in the USA, or not. Look forward to any input. Thank you. Maarten10 21:48, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

No a single standard PAL TV will not work in the USA.
Regarding the conflicting information: A large portion of televisions sold in Europe nowadays are not single standard PAL but multi standard. Many of those will accept NTSC signals, but usually only from the A/V input for watching NTSC DVDs or tapes, but not NTSC off air reception as most of these lack a tuner for standard M.
Besides all of this the mains voltage is different.
Some newer LCD models however are made with a "world tuner" and accept all voltages. If you have one like that it probably works. We can't tell from here if you have one of those, check the manual. Anorak2 05:32, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 20th centuries map... :(

this map is old and now false, Korea is NTSC, continental China as well and Russia is PAL. should be corrected. Paris By Night 11:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh? South Korea is NTSC, North Korea is SECAM, that is what the map shows. Mainland China is indeed PAL, but the map says so. Russia is SECAM, you're wrong there but the map shows it correctly. Anorak2 10:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It is very true many publications of television standards are out of date, North Korea uses PAL D & K, and South Korea uses NTSC M (teknikingman@yahoo.com.au) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.107.232 (talk) 10:45, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Is Byelorus PAL of SECAM?--86.29.240.2 (talk) 14:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PAL to PAL-M?

Is it possible to convert PAL to PAL-M? I have a DVD player (PAL system) that plays back DVDs (PAL) in black and white on a PAL-M TV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.24.142.8 (talk) 19:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's possible, but probably not economical. You need a standards converter, for example out of this range: http://www.tenlab.com/products/products.htm
As you can see the prices are rather steep. Possibly some cheaper PAL->PAL-M converters are available locally in Brazil (where I assume you are), but that is just a guess.
However, any such solution will probably cost more than a DVD player which converts PAL to NTSC (many of the cheap Chinese units can do it) which many TVs sold in Brazil can probably display, failing that you can get a NTSC->PAL-M converter on top (which is going to be much cheaper than a PAL->PAL-M unit). Or you can get a television capable of displaying European PAL natively. Anorak2 21:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pal speedup removeal

Ok, what joker removed the explanation for PAL speedup (in itself stupid) and left the redirects in place? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PAL_speedup&redirect=no --IceHunter (talk) 18:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Me, when I removed all references to frame rate and scan raster from this page. I didn't know this redirect existed, fixed it now. Anorak2 (talk) 10:40, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

What would happen if I tried to play a PAL tape on an NTSC VCR? --Ryanasaurus0077 (talk) 00:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

The tape would play too fast, and the head drum would not synch with the PAL frame rate. The result would be a completely carbled picture which (if you can see anything at all) would play too fast. Anorak2 (talk) 10:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PAL Colourimetry incorrect?

It looks as if colorimetry info on this page is out of date, or incorrect:

The page says the following:

  • PAL and NTSC have slightly divergent colour spaces, but the colour decoder differences here are ignored.;
  • PAL supports SMPTE 498.3 while NTSC is compliant with EBU Recommendation 14.
  • I assume the second bullet still refers to colourimetric info.
  • I cannot find the relevant standards.
  • There is no section on Colourimetry, there should be, to match the Serial Digital Interface article

See the following for basic references to colourimetry in consumer broadcast: broadcasting_colorimetry_standards (Also available in Wayback machine, without images) RobMosys (talk) 12:50, 21 April 2008 (UTC)