Talk:Package management system

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[edit] Mac OS X installer needs mentioning!

Mac OS X does have some package management functionality (an installer and a software update utility), which should be included here. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From RPM Package Manager

[edit] Related tools

RPM is often used by another tool for handling dependencies, such as the Yellow Dog Updater Modified (yum) or the RPM-based version of the Advanced Packaging Tool (apt).

Some other package managers are

The following tools are simply front ends to RPM-based systems:

  • YaST used in SuSE
  • urpmi used in Mandriva Linux
  • yum used in Yellow Dog Linux and Fedora Core.

In addition, the advanced dependency-management system in APT has been ported to work on RPM databases as apt4rpm.

See also: Archive formats

- Samsara (talk • contribs) 18:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested merge of Package management system and Installer

Mostly I am suggesting the merge to force a clarification of what each article is about. Some of the material in Installer belongs in this article, and some material that clearly belongs in Installer is simply absent. klik would be an example of an installer mentioned in the PMS article. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 20:59, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Installer != Package Management System

These two pages should not be merged. A package management system does install programs, but it also checks dependencies and installs those which are required by the program being installed, according to the preferences and command line choices made by the installing user. Most installers, on the other hand, assume that the user's system already has the required libraries or programs the program being installed requires. This is especially true in the case of Windows installers. Some well-written installers do check, usually exiting if the libraries are not found, but most will only mention what is needed. But the inclusion of the functions of checking dependencies and downloading required libraries would, in my opinion, make an installer into a package management system. It might be argued that this makes a package management system a subset of installers, but I think they should still have separate entries to avoid confusion.

If you'd written that as a clarification on a merged page, it would be more useful. Not that it was news to me... And, following your proposed definition, it would seem that several examples are currently misclassified. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 20:36, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with the Installer != PMS. Here is my reasoning, let's see if it's bad. When I think installer, I think of a self contained EXE file that I can download and double-click, which will run it's included executable to move files from the executable into the directories where they need to be. An installer contains not only the program, but all support libraries as well. The installer checks to see if you have the support libraries installed, if not, it installs those libraries. A Package Management System, however, is separate from the actual program being installed. (My experience is with emerge from Gentoo and apt-get from Debian) You use the PMS system's program to download a separate package, then follow the instructions in that separate package to install that package. Should that package need support libraries, the PMS can download those as well; however, the program being installed DOES NOT contain it's own copies of the libraries like a Win installer. It depends on the PMS to get those for it.
So, in summary, to ME, a Installer is a program that contains within itself the program to be installed and it's support libraries. In contrast, a PMS is a Utility that gets the program to be installed as a completely separate file, and can retrieve any libraries the program to be installed needs as completely separate files. The difference is between WinampInstall.exe and apt-get(+x) + XMMS.deb + Mp3.deb + ... Autodmc 16:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I didn't want to get dinged for not providing sources for my statements. And I didn't have time when I made the comment to properly research it. Skreyola (talk) 04:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Installers are mostly stand-alone, I-don't-care-about-other-software programs. Package management systems handle installers, dependencies, etc. æle ✆ 2006-05-27t14:13z
Installers are mostly
Guys, can we have clear definitions, please?! - Samsara (talk • contribs) 20:25, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying not to generalize, because some programs blur the line a little bit (see the Cygwin installer; it also manages Cygwin packages). æle ✆ 2006-05-28t02:19z
If this page is to be just a list, it should be so renamed or nominated for deletion. I think it would be a shame, because there actually are general principles to discuss here that haven't yet been touched on. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 08:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Gah, I was writing that late last night. I meant "generalize too much", in the sense that there're always exceptions to any rule. æle ✆ 2006-05-28t13:02z

[edit] Comparison of package management systems

I think it would be nice to have a comparison table that outlines features of various package management systems. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kc8tpz (talk • contribs) 20:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

This is a cool idea. One issue is redundant information. Each portal wants its own specific information, e.g., the Linux portal doesn't want to see everything about Windows and Mac managers. Also, the grouping is a bit odd. The core fields would include name, platform, package formats managed, what package managers are 'under the hood' and a list of features: GUI, command line, creating packages, managing multiple machines, and so on.--Charles Merriam (talk) 21:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Windows PMS

  1. [...] whereas the PMS of Mac OS X and Windows will only upgrade software provided by Apple and Microsoft, respectively [...]
    What, if any exists, is the official Windows PMS? --Abdull 09:39, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
    Windows does not, to my knowledge, have anything resembling a PMS, because Windows is designed on a single-user model, and PMSs are generally found in multi-user platforms. MacOS is an exception. Skreyola (talk) 04:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
  2. Appsnap link comment edit Gert4gt (talk) 02:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC) someone can add that back in if they can add a link to backup the "most advanced" claim. I couldn't find anything to back that up. Sorry.
  3. Regarding the linkfarm template in the Windows section:
    As I note in a comment, since none of these are official systems bundled with Windows, people might not be familiar with them, and since individual software is not necessarily likely to have a Wiki page, linking to them directly does not seem unreasonable. All of these links seem appropriate to the article. I recommend removal of the linkfarm template. Skreyola (talk) 05:46, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] diagram

What does the diagram achieve that a numbered list (inline with the text) wouldn't? Is it meant to imply a cycle? Also, the "typical" manual action of requesting a reboot, is quite atypical except on Windows. (That example just perpetuates the myth that it's normal for computers to need to get rebooted every time some dumb screen saver is installed). —Fleminra 23:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A screenshot of a GUI package manager, like Synaptic, might do better at conveying the core idea. --Charles Merriam (talk) 21:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

How about a screenshot of aptitude? (Sorry, I don't have Synaptic installed at the moment). Skreyola (talk) 05:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Please, don't shrink it, there is no sense in unreadable text-mode screenshot --pavel.

[edit] A cloud of articles

I spent some time cleaning up, and possibly making some sections worse. :). There seems to be an odd cloud of related pages of varying quality, from the individual package managers, installers, and general terms like software distribution. What would be a good 'master' article that talks about the whole system administration of installed software that can put all this in perspective to a person with only a general understanding of computers. It just feels like the cloud is wrong. Any ideas?--Charles Merriam (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More sections: History; How does it works.

Does anyone know the history? It probably makes a difference.

Also, we should have some sort of How Does It Work section and diagram. The diagram might have the software repository, package manager, internals of a package, the local package database, and some directories. Showing how a user contacts a repository, selects a package from the description, gets prompted to download dependencies, downloads to local machine, unpacks into local directories, and updates the local package database might be good. Hmmm..... --Charles Merriam (talk) 21:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not an essay any more...

I looked at this, and think it doesn't look like an essay anymore. Still needs a history, and an "example of how it does it" section.

[edit] The reference updates

Hello - I've upgraded the formatting of the references. This includes verifying that the links are still active. Sometimes over time they become dead links. Standard reference syntax has the "retrieved on" date as the original viewing date. My changes have that date as the most current viewing date. This helps Wikipedia editors see, at a glance, when that page was last verified as active. E_dog95 Hi 14:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)