Talk:Ostinato

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[edit] Removed:Chad Twedt

I remove the following from the list of examples:

  • "The clearest musical examples of the ostinato would be various compositions of Chad Twedt (i.e. Ostinato Suite No. 1 and No. 2), which include large-scale piano works that exclusively and thoroughly explore the ostinato technique in tonal settings."

Twedt's compositions may be the clearest examples, but they are not the most notable (though he is real [1]). Hyacinth 12:43, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed: Origin

I removed the following:

  • "As we presume that theatre was invented in Ancient Greece by the time an actor segregated from the chorus and started a dialogue with it, the technique of improvising over an ostinato is to have its origins in the folk music of different cultures. This way of creating a basic polyphony proves to be less difficult than other techniques and, consequently, it is more likely to catch the interest and be practiced in small communities."

As it doesn't make sense and lacks sources. Hyacinth 12:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Further reading

  • Hodeir, André (1956). Jazz, its evolution and esence. ISBN 0394175255.
  • Popp, Marius (1998). Applicatory Harmony in Jazz, Pop & Rock Improvisation. ISBN 9735692287.

Is there a specific part of these books readers may be referred to for information about ostinatos? Hyacinth 08:37, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You've probably seen I've given up the André Hodeir reference. That is because what lies written in the History section owes very little to his book at this point. I am planning to expand it, so you might meet the link again on the article page.
As for the Marius Popp reference, please renounce taking it to a Further reading section. I used it as a reference for the History section in this article. Rather, you could help by adding somewhere that information found in the Introductive Chapter was used only - just that I'm not sure where it would be better to write so. It is a little obvious that your experience in Wiki is richer than mine, so we'd better discuss before this article will turn into a continuos switch between two variants, mine and yours. Maybe we're both right, but this fact sometimes lacks arguments.
Another thing about Marius Popp, having in mind that he's less known than other jazz theorists: his book is perfectly reliable and very ingeniously written. Also, he is considered to be the most important Romanian jazzman alive - he plays the piano. I'll try to start an article about him. Impy4ever 10:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you Romanian? I ask because I am unable to verify the book by Mihai Berindei, who is also Romanian. Do you have an ISBN for it? Hyacinth 09:41, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we both are Romanian. Unfortunately, there is no ISBN or equivalent identifier for any book published in Romania before 1990; I guess this was in order not to permit "cultural exchanges" between Romanian writers and those abroad. Yet, I tell you this is another trustworthy source. The only link to prove the book's existance I have found lies at BiblioPhil and what is less favorable about - it is written in Romanian.
Do you think that including in a new Wiki article the bibliography Berindei used would be a good idea? I'll insist a little with the books I've mentioned here, because they are really useful. Also, I guess this dictionary would be hard to get in a country a little farther from Romania's neighbours. Impy4ever 04:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definitions

  • "An ostinato is any clearly defined melodic or rhythmic pattern that is repeated persistently. In jazz, ostinato patterns may be of various lengths and are generally found in the bass line. (Do not confuse ostinato with vamp, which refers to a short repeated chord progression, often serving as the introduction to a performance.)." (p.132)
    • Rawlins, Robert (2005). Jazzology: The Encyclopedia of Jazz Theory for All Musicians. ISBN 0634086782.
  • "Ostinato Motive or phrase that is repeated persistently at the same pitch, used in twentieth-century music to stabilize a group of pitches. Example Stravinsky, The Rite of Spring, 'Introduction' and 'Omens of Spring'". (p.611)

[edit] References

Should it be "Reference" since there is only one? Hyacinth 08:22, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

No. More will come--Light current 01:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, until you build this Field of Dreams, should it be "Reference"? Hyacinth 09:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
It happened quickly enough after all. Hyacinth 22:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Riffs

What about the riff in 'Street where you live' by Stan Kenton? Is that an ostinato or a riff? Sounds pretty damn obstinate to me- going quite forcefully against the melody!--Light current 23:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

If it is repeated at the same pitch, then it is an ostinato. More generally, it would appear that ostinatos are riffs. Hyacinth 09:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Planet Caravan"

I readded "Planet Caravan" as I don't think its that obscure. Hyacinth 20:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lead paragraph of article is too much

Fellow editors: I believe that the lead section of this article is just too much.

First, the lead section is overly complicated and complex and tries to do too much, even to the point of getting into a discussion of homophonic and contrapuntal textures. The lead paragraph(s) of an article should be like the lead paragraph(s) of a newspaper article: it should summarize the basics.

Second, there are nine footnotes in the lead section -- too many in my opinion. While it's great to footnote, all of the little footnote numbers lead to a choppy-looking article.

My 2¢, Oscar 03:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Film music

Are we really going to class film music as popular rather than classical?

[edit] Ground bass

Surely there should be a separate article on ground bass. Including it under "ostinato" does not do it justice. And there is no mention at all of one of the greatest examples, the last movement of Brahms' fourth symphony. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.140.194.147 (talk) 13:42, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Trivia box

The "Famous Examples" section was marked (just last month) with one of those warning boxes against trivia sections. I don't agree that examples are trivia, and I believe the examples are a crucial part of making the subject of the article understood.

Having said that, the examples section could use some work.
--63.25.125.29 (talk) 23:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)