Talk:Oneness vs Trinity
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This was a large section of disputed text from Oneness Pentecostalism. It can be encyclopedic, but has serious NPOV issues. To help maintain a smaller article size for Oneness Pentecostalism, and to work towards cleaning up NPOV issues, and because this is a large enough topic that needs to be placed on an independant page (as opposed to sitting either on Oneness or Trinitarian pages), here it is. I'm personally working on improving the main article at the moment, but I'm by no means abandoning this to the wind. I didn't write any of it, but I'll help clean it up. Anyone that would like to help, it is surely welcome. --DeWayne Lehman 17:40, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I am not sure what the issues are here and what is disputed. Until the disputed text is identified I do not understand the NPOV issues. If it is a matter of an editor's own personal bias toward something Oneness present about themselves it should be noted. If it is a historical question then offer a correction so we can test it. If it is a reference problem, again note the place. I have noticed a lot of correcting being done where in the end Oneness are said to believe something they do not. The last entry here was In April nearly eight months ago. I see no real dispute here and believe the tag should be removed. Reckart Sr. Dr Gary 11:49, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is clearly deficient as it betrays the title by failing to represent any significant Trinitarian responses to Oneness. Trinitarians pose several meaningful challenges to Oneness theology which are never discussed here, such as New Testament texts affirming the presence of Christ with God before the incarnation (John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God", 3:17 "God sent his Son into the world", 13:3 Jesus "came from God and was returning to God", 17:5 "give me the glory I had alongside of you before the world existed", and as if to remove all doubt, in Romans 8:3 Paulus speaks of "God sending his Son in the likeness of sinful flesh"). Also the Lord Jesus used plural pronouns "we", "us", and "our" when speaking of God the Father and himself (John 14:23-24, 17:11, 22). In addition, he spoke of himself and the Father as "two men" in John 8:16-18, where the Greek word is "anthropos" meaning "person" (and is frequently translated as such in the KJV). In addition, Paulus writes that the separation of Christ and the Father in person were common knowledge in the early church (1 Corinthians 15:27-29, "it is manifest" or self-evident, cf. 1 Co 11:3). Oneness Pentecostals have powerful theological arguments, but this article represents a strawman attack on Trinitarian and Orthodox Christianity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MJMurphy3 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
This is not a debate page with trinitarians nor is it a page placed here to present the trinitarian theory. It is a page to present "only" the Oneness Jewish view of God within the Christology of Monotheism opposing that formulated in 325AD at Nicaea which became the trinity doctrine. Since this page should present the Oneness view with Jesus being the central object of Deity, tinitarians should create their own page "Trinty vs Oneness" and post their theories. This is not the place for the clashing of doctrinal differences. The arguments of Oneness against the trinity doctrine is not strawman tactics, they are genuine attempts to show and prove where the trinity doctrine is not only contradictory within its self, but how it is contradictory to the simple wording of the Scriptures. Since the trinty was not formalized until 325AD (Father & Son co-joined) and afterward 381AD (Holy Spirit added), it cannot be claimed to be the orthodox faith of the Apostles who never heard of a trinity doctrine of three separate God persons within the one Godhead. The true orthodox faith of the Apostles is Oneness even if many trinitarians cannot grasp this. What is confusing is the misunderstanding of the Jewish use of "Son of God" which never is meant to mean a second God of rank within a plural Godhead. It would be best for all concerned to place what Oneness actually believe here against Trinitarianism and let Trinitarians create their own page what they believe against Oneness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.207.87 (talk) 14:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
