Talk:Old Catholic Church in Europe
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I have tried to comply with the need to wikify and clear up the piece. \\\\--Father Stuart1 17:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)\\\\
Thank you, Father Stuart. With the greatest of respect to you, of course, as somebody from the outside, I still found it rather subjective and with some elements based on assumptions not generally held other than by those within the independent catholic tradition. I have modified your own text slightly and added my own in order to present a more balanced approach. \\\\--User:Bertelin 11.22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)\\\\
[edit] This page has been the victim of crypto-vandelism
The page now does not reflect a fair and approrpiate refelction of this denomination. The changes made are from a partisan perspective and I leave you to guess which denomination. The assertion of this Church being in the tradition of Episcopi Vagantes is spray canned wthout evidence or supporting material and is no more than prejudice masquerading as impartiality.
The critique of holy orders is a subjective statement made without references or evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.138.204.49 (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Oh dear. I certainly wasn't expecting an accusation of crypto-vandalism. I didn't think that my tone was anything other than proper. I do concede that my statement on the Catholic position regarding orders was not supported. I merely got that from an existing Wikipedia article on episcopi vagantes*. Not having supported it myself, I have removed that section and offer my apologies for my haste. However, the Orthodox position is one with which I am familiar and have cited both the branch theory article, which contains the anathema against ecumenism, and have since added a link to text by an Orthodox bishop and theologian. I didn't quote him in the article as I believe the material to be under copyright. *I must admit to being rather taken aback by the strong language used to describe this particular edition. I assure the anonymous contributor that my contribution was not masquerading as anything. I found the original article to be very subjective and so edited it accordingly without any disparagement. While I do have firm beliefs I try not to allow them to colour my contributions here and so if you would please share why you feel my amendment to be inappropriate, I should be grateful. Many thanks. \\\\--User:Bertelin 20.29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)\\\\
I have attempted to engage in polite exchange with the contributor who anonymously assigned to me hostility that I did not intend, trying to clarify the nature of the objections. As no response has been forthcoming almost a month later, I shall remove the dispute tags in the main article and let the matter rest. The anonymous contributor is, of course, at liberty to make amendments to the article to alter whatever inaccurcies he/she considers there to be. \\\\--User:Bertelin 09.51, 4 October 2007 (UTC)\\\\
Re Episcopi Vagantes: I have removed the term and inserted "Old Catholic/Independent Catholic" tradition as the OCCE does not claim to be Roman Catholic and the Holy See has made no official pronouncement on it's recognition of the validity or Canonical status of this particular denomination's Orders. As Episcopi Vagantes is an RC term for it's own "wandering Bishops" and as none of the OCCE's Bishops were formerly Roman Catholic Bishops, I do not see the relevance of the use of this term in this article.
I have also given what I believe to be a fair yet more accurate and probable RC position with regard to the validity or not of the OCCE's Sacraments. (Periti 11:53, 24 October 2007 (UTC))
In relation to this Church, the web site has been reviewed and a change has been made that reflects their state of intercommunion although further clarification is required relating to the connections of this Church with Old Catholics in Continental Europe. Spiorad 18:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
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