Talk:Ogonek
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page. |
| ??? | This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s quality scale. |
| ??? | This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s importance scale. |
[edit] Against total merger of E-caudata
I tried to remove the merge tag, as it had attracted precisely zero support or talk-page commentary over six months. But it's been added back, so let me open the discussion here. E-caudata is not analogous to all the other letters with ogonek. As the article states clearly, "Under the name e caudata ("tailed e"), ę was used in Latin from as early as the twelfth century to represent the vowel also written ae or æ." This usage is notable and distinct enough for its own article, and the article's point in saying "under the name e caudata" is that this is not considered a letter-plus-ogonek. There's no question in my mind that e-caudata deserves its own article. Now, what is more debatable is whether the e-plus-ogonek usages (nasalized e) should not be combined into the article ogonek. This would be perfectly proper, and I'm in favor of it. Basically, my suggestion is that the article E caudata should, (A) be moved to that title (B) contain the sentence quoted above and the image there, (C) say that e-plus-ogonek is more or less typographically identical, for which combination (including computer representation of the character), see ogonek. That's basically the merest of stubs, but it's not information that properly belongs at ogonek. Does that make sense? (As for the article name Ę, perhaps a disambiguation page saying that in palaeography it's e caudata, but that in modern writing systems it's e plus ogonek. Wareh 23:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hi. Reading your argument, my thoughts are the following:
- The modern use of e-with-ogonek to represent nasalization, etc., should be merged into the Ogonek article. While there are a few loose articles for particular characters currently on Wikipedia, such as T-comma, S-comma, or Ñ, in most cases they we either never started, or later merged into the article about the corresponding diacritical mark.
- On the other hand, there are precedents for opening independent articles for paleographic symbols no longer in use, such as Apex (diacritic) (although, personally, I am still unsure that it shouldn't be merged into acute accent).
- The truth of the matter is that I tend to be more a lumper than a splitter, but I could accept the historical argument you gave for keeping the article separate. In that case, though, I suggest doing the following:
- Best regards. FilipeS 16:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
-
- Sounds like a consensus to me. E caudata is not exactly a major topic—I wouldn't mind if it redirected to a good article on Latin palaeography that included it, or to History of the Latin alphabet if that article covered it. But as it is the separation along the lines we've both laid out is far easier. I'll proceed along those lines once I see no further input is forthcoming. Wareh 16:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] French
And what with ogonek in French as below c in phrase "Ca va"? Is it an ogonek or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.25.130.238 (talk) 17:46, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- See cedilla. They may sometimes by typographically similar, but compare the e-with-ogonek pictured in this article with the e-with-cedilla pictured in that one. Wareh 17:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Old Norse and...
Ogonek is also mentioned on the page for the Scandinavian language of Elfdalian (but isn't linked from there). -- Flagstonia 05:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
- I provided the link & did some minor rewording. Wareh 13:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
