Talk:No-hitter

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[edit] List of all the no-hitters

The Wikipedia page for players hitting for the cycle has the list of all the players who accomplished the feat and when they did it. That would be a nice addition to this page. Hsox05 14:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error in AP article on Sanchez no-hitter

The AP article is saying that the gap between today's Sanchez no-hitter and the last no-hitter, Randy Johnson's in 2004, is the longest ever. That is not the case. Baseball went a full three years, 1931-34, without a no-hitter.Vidor 06:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe they are only counting "no-hitters" and not perfect games. The last game that was only a no-hitter was on 06/11/03. Either way, I think the article is now correct. -- dakern74 (talk) 02:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, looked at the article again, and it is talking about most GAMES between no-hitters, not days. They went three years 1931-34, that's true, but that was when MLB had only sixteen teams and thus only eight games a day. Now they have thirty teams, and thus fifteen games a day. Is that the better measure? Vidor 06:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did you see the sunrise?

I didn't notice who had the earliest no-hitter. So who was it? And whose record did he beat? Thomas Magnum 16:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

The first no-hitter listed in the MLB record book was by George Bradley on 07/15/1876. The distance between the pitcher's mound and home plate changed several times back then; the first one with the current 60½-foot dimensions was by Bill Hawke on 08/16/1893. Hope this helps. -- dakern74 (talk) 04:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stolen bases

I removed the following sentence:

Furthermore, he pitched that seventh no-hitter on the same day Rickey Henderson stole his 939th career base, passing Lou Brock for the all-time record.

This tidbit didn't seem to have anything to do with no-hitters or with Nolan Ryan, especially not following the word "Furthermore". Ufwuct 20:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree (and I'm the one who added it) because I thought it was too great of a concidence not to include.

[edit] Nats / Expos

I undid the piped link insterted by User:MrHaroldG2000 so that it leads to the Expos, not the Nationals; we're talking about 1969, and the whole emphasis of that line is about how the Expos were a new franchise. Makes more sense this way.

[edit] individual vs. combined no hitters

Intro section should mention the frequency of no hitters, and also distinguish between a single pitcher and multiple pitchers pitching a no hitter. Tempshill 14:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

"The achievement of a no-hitter is rare and considered to be an extraordinary accomplishment for a pitcher or pitching staff. In most cases in the professional game, no-hitters are accomplished by a single pitcher who throws a complete game"
...? Demong 22:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] April 18 2007 White Sox Pitcher Mark Buehrle throws a no-hitter

Mark Buehrle.throws no hitter on April 18th 2007 it's the first White Sox no-hitter since '91

[edit] Philip Hughes "almost" no-hitter 5/1/07

I put this in this morning, then it was taken out by someone. I wanted to add it back in but don't want to start an "edit war".

While there are plenty of "almosts", I would think this was unusual both in that it was his second ever major league start (like Wilson Alvarez) and that he was still on the no-hitter 3/4 into the game when he got injured and removed from the game. I think of an "almost" that wouldn't go in this as something like "giving up a hit with 2 outs in the ninth" (as I think happened with Tom Seaver for the Mets in the late 1960s), but I can't think of any instance when a pitcher injured himself this late in a game while still on a no-hitter, especially one like this which if completed would've been "historic". If we are including rain-shortened no-hitters and the Ernie Shore "perfect game" I would think this would be an unusually noteworthy exception.

Any thoughts? If anyone has other examples of someone still on a no-hitter in the 7th inning or beyond being taken out for injury happened then I agree leave it out but I think this was unique. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.179.96.86 (talk) 20:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Hi there! I was the one who removed it. Thanks for the post.
Wilson Alvarez is not a valid comparison, given that he completed his no-hitter. Ernie Shore's game was also a complete (combined) no-hitter, and "perfect game" is only mentioned in the context that the designation was retracted. "Rain-shortened no-hitters" are similarly only mentioned as not counting anymore. Indeed, the word "almost" appears nowhere in the article. In the face of contention, the burden is on the adding editor to illustrate (by reference) that Philip Hughes's "almost" is notable enough to be mentioned when no others are. — Demong talk 21:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
There have been countless "near no hitters". The only ones really worth mentioning here are in the post-season or really special circumstances, like the Haddix game, or the Toney-Vaughn game, or Ewell Blackwell missing a second consecutive no-hitter. Most are not. Consider the one where some San Diego pitcher was throwing a no-hitter but the game was either scoreless or he was trailing by a run, and manager Preston Gomez put in a pinch-hitter for him in the eighth inning as the crowd booed loudly. The other team got at least one hit off the reliever, and won the game, as I recall. That's a bizarre one, but not worth bringing up in the article. Wahkeenah 23:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Then there's the one where a Pirates pitcher, I think it was, gave a leadoff single and shut them down the rest of the way. That's fairly unique, and doesn't really belong here either. A separate article about near-no-hitters could be written, but it would be very long. Wahkeenah 23:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

OK I'm convinced, thanks for the "education". The Philip Hughes article mentions it anyway (not by me), which is where it should go.216.179.96.86 (talk) 13:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Deleted trivia section preserved for possible reintegration

[edit] Trivia

Mike Scott of the Houston Astros threw a no-hitter against the San Francisco Giants on September 25, 1986; the victory also clinched the National League West title for the Astros, the only such coincidence thus far. In the first game of a double header on September 28, 1951, Allie Reynolds of the New York Yankees pitched a no-hitter against the Boston Red Sox which clinched a tie for the American League pennant (the pennant was clinched outright in the double header's second game).

In June 1938, Johnny Vander Meer of the Cincinnati Reds accomplished what no other pitcher has managed to duplicate before or since. On June 11 of that year, he threw a no-hitter against the Boston Braves. In his very next start, June 15, he threw a no-hitter against the Brooklyn Dodgers, thus becoming the only pitcher in baseball history to throw consecutive no-hitters. He was perhaps aided by the fact that it was also the very first night game at Ebbets Field. Most baseball historians believe that his feat will never be exceeded, since to do so a pitcher would have to throw three consecutive no-hitters. Allie Reynolds (in 1951), Virgil Trucks (in 1952), Jim Maloney (in 1965), and Nolan Ryan (in 1973) are the only other major leaguers thus far to throw two no-hitters in the same season. The pitcher who came closest to matching Vander Meer was Ewell Blackwell of Cincinnati, who had a no-hitter broken up with one out in the ninth against Brooklyn on 22 June 1947, four days after no-hitting the Braves 6-0.

Dave Stieb of the Toronto Blue Jays nearly duplicated Vander Meer's feat in his last two starts of the 1988 season when he lost no-hit bids (one a perfect game) with two outs in the ninth on both occasions. Furthermore, Stieb threw a one-hitter in his second start of the following season, thus giving him three one-hitters in four starts. After losing another no-hit bid with two outs in the ninth inning later in 1989, Stieb finally accomplished the elusive feat when he no-hit the Cleveland Indians on September 2, 1990.

Five pitchers have thrown a no-hitter in both the American League and the National League: Cy Young, Nolan Ryan, Jim Bunning, Hideo Nomo, and Randy Johnson. Only three catchers have caught a no-hitter in each league: Gus Triandos, Jeff Torborg, and Ron Hassey. Triandos caught Hoyt Wilhelm's 1958 no-hitter and Jim Bunning's perfect game, Torborg caught Sandy Koufax's perfect game and Nolan Ryan's first no-hitter, and Hassey caught Len Barker's and Dennis Martinez's perfect games.

Harvey Kuenn had the dubious distinction of making the final out in two of Sandy Koufax's four no-hitters. As a Giant in 1963 he hit a ground ball back to none other than Koufax for the final out; as a Cub in 1965 he struck out for the final out in Koufax's perfect game (to date, the last no-hitter to be pitched against the Cubs).

In 1991, Nolan Ryan completed his seventh no-hitter by striking out Roberto Alomar for the final out. Ryan's second baseman in his first two no-hitters (both of which were pitched in 1973) had been Alomar's father, Sandy Sr.

The Forsch brothers are the only brother combination to pitch Major League no-hitters. Bob of the St. Louis Cardinals pitched two: on April 16, 1978 against the Philadelphia Phillies, and September 26, 1983 against the Montréal Expos. Less than a year after Bob's first, his brother Ken of the Houston Astros joined him by pitching his no-hitter on April 7, 1979 against the Atlanta Braves.

Back-to-back no-hitters have been tossed for teams opposing each other during a single series. On September 17, 1968, Gaylord Perry of the San Francisco Giants no-hit the St. Louis Cardinals, 1-0, at Candlestick Park. The very next day, Ray Washburn returned the favor for his Cardinals against the Giants, with St. Louis prevailing over San Francisco, 2-0. (Curt Flood was involved in the final out of both no-hitters, striking out for the final out in the former and catching Willie McCovey's fly ball for the final out in the latter. Coincidentally, all four players were born in 1938, as was Johnny Edwards, who caught Washburn's no-hitter.) It happened again when Jim Maloney of the Reds pitched an easy 10-0 victory against the Astros on April 30, 1969 at Crosley Field. The very next day, Don Wilson of the Astros returned the favor, no-hitting the Reds 4-0. The no-hitters were the second of both Maloney's and Wilson's careers; in 1965 Maloney, in a third game, allowed no hits after ten innings but had the no-hitter broken up by a home run in the 11th.

Addie Joss is the only pitcher to throw two no-hitters against the same team. On October 2, 1908, the Cleveland Indian pitcher hurled a perfect game against the Chicago White Sox. (This no-hitter is the latest, calendar-wise, to have been pitched in a regular season game in modern history, later tied by Bill Stoneman, in 1972.) Joss no-hit the White Sox a second time on April 20, 1910.

In 1970, four of the five California-based Major League Stadiums had no-hitters pitched in them, with Candlestick Park being the only one not to witness a no-hitter. In the first game of a June 12 doubleheader, Pittsburgh Pirate pitcher Dock Ellis no-hit the San Diego Padres 2-0 at San Diego Stadium (while, Ellis claims, tripping on LSD). On July 3, California Angel pitcher Clyde Wright no-hit the Oakland Athletics 4-0 at Anaheim Stadium. On July 20, Los Angeles Dodger pitcher Bill Singer no-hit the Philadelphia Phillies 5-0 at Dodger Stadium. And on September 21, Oakland's Vida Blue no-hit the Minnesota Twins 6-0 at Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum.

In addition to the aforementioned Wilson Alvarez, whose only previous Major League appearance came as a Texas Ranger, two other pitchers have pitched no-hitters in their first starts with a new team. On May 15, 1960, only two days after being traded from the Philadelphia Phillies to the Chicago Cubs, Don Cardwell no-hit the St. Louis Cardinals 4-0 in the second game of a doubleheader. On April 4, 2001, Hideo Nomo, signed as a free agent by the Boston Red Sox the previous December, no-hit the Baltimore Orioles 3-0. Nomo's no-hitter - the second of his career - is also the earliest in the regular-season calendar that a no-hitter has been thrown.

Three pitchers have homered while pitching no-hitters. Wes Ferrell of the Cleveland Indians hit a home run during his April 29, 1931 no-hitter against the St. Louis Browns. Earl Wilson of the Boston Red Sox hit a home run during his June 26, 1962 no-hitter against the Los Angeles Angels. Rick Wise went one better: in his June 23, 1971 no-hitter against the Cincinnati Reds, the Philadelphia Phillies pitcher hit two home runs.

Some teams seem to pitch no-hitters more than others. Most notably, the New York Mets have never had a no-hitter pitched for them since their inception in 1962, despite having had some of baseball's most overpowering no-hit pitchers including Tom Seaver, Dwight Gooden, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Tom Glavine, Al Leiter and Mike Scott on their pitching staff at times. (In sharp contrast, Bill Stoneman pitched a no-hitter for the Montreal Expos on April 17, 1969—only nine games into the franchise's existence. Moreover, on June 30, 1962, only three months into the Mets' existence, Sandy Koufax threw a no-hitter against them for the first of his four career no-hitters.) The San Diego Padres, who started play in 1969, also have never had a no-hitter; neither have two recent expansion teams, the Colorado Rockies (1993) and Tampa Bay Devil Rays (1998).

Bobo Holloman's no-hitter was one of his only three Major League victories. By comparison, nine 300-game winners—Grover Cleveland Alexander, Kid Nichols, Lefty Grove, Early Wynn, Steve Carlton, Don Sutton, Greg Maddux, Roger Clemens and Tom Glavine—have/had never pitched a no-hitter in their careers.

Also, some parks are famous for their number of no-hitters, either high or low. Forbes Field, home to the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1909 to 1970, never saw a no-hitter. Conversely, Kauffman Stadium, home of the Kansas City Royals, had a no-hitter pitched in only its first year of existence: Nolan Ryan's first career no-hitter in 1973. Two parks in existence for a decade or more have only seen one no-hitter to date—the Orioles' current home, Oriole Park at Camden Yards, and Coors Field, the notoriously hitter-friendly home of the Colorado Rockies. In both parks, the only pitcher to throw a no-hitter is Hideo Nomo.

No-hitters have become rarer than ever. Anibal Sanchez's no-hitter on September 6, 2006 ended a 2 1/2 year stretch without one, the longest stretch between no-hitters in seventy years [1] and the longest number of games played (6,364) between no-hitters in Major League history.[2] The number of no-hitters pitched since the early 1990s has decreased due to the increasing rarity of a starting pitcher completing a game, based on restrictions to his pitch count (which nowadays averages about 100 per quality start). Since 100 pitches are usually thrown by the sixth or seventh inning of most games, the starting pitcher is typically removed from the game, even if he is pitching well. There have, however, been a number of combined no-hitters, utilizing multiple pitchers. Generally however, managers will allow the pitcher working on a no-hitter to stay in the game because even some of the greatest pitchers in history have never had a chance at a no-hitter.

In the 2006 World Baseball Classic Shairon Martis pitched a no hitter for the Netherlands against Panama national baseball team, however it was only seven innings due to the mercy rule.

Wasn't there a black pitcher who admitted (in a biography or something similar) that he was high on cocaine and didn't realize what he'd done until a teammate rushed over and told him that he'd just pitched a no-hitter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.70.186 (talk) 23:44, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Doc Ellis claims to have been high on LSD when he threw his no-hitter, but I'm not sure that's actually notable — Demong talk 00:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edited, streamlined, removed POV

Did some cleanup that included linking to some official MLB info that includes the definition of a no-hitter as well as links to a couple of box scores. Removed some redundancies and took out the paragraph about the "controversial" no-hitter rule that excluded games of less than nine innings; the reader can judge if Andy Hawkins deserves credit for a no-hitter or not. (I say no, as he should not when all the pitchers who lost a no-hitter in the ninth inning don't). Vidor 15:59, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with most of your changes, but why remove the citation for the "sportscasters" sentence? That paragraph went through a lot of anecdotal back-and-forth, and was refined into two sentences, both meaningful / relevant / cited. Leaving the sentence uncited may invite more "ESPN jinxes games all the time lol" type additions... — Demong talk 18:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The MLB footnote reference says, "An official no-hit game occurs when a pitcher (or pitchers) allows no hits during the entire course of a game, which consists of at least nine innings." It does not say that a pitcher on a losing team on the road cannot be credited with a no-hitter even though he only pitches 8 innings. Consider this: If a pitcher pitches a complete game and loses, a newspaper article might say, "Smith pitched very well in the loss, throwing a complete game 3-hitter." What if Smith allowed no hits? What would the newspaper article say? HolyT 17:47, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

What would the newspaper say? "Smith pitched eight no-hit innings, but does not officially receive credit for a no-hitter due to MLB's rule." The MLB footnote does in fact say that a losing pitcher on the road does not get credit for a no-hitter, because it says nine innings are required, and eight innings is not nine. Andy Hawkins, Silver King back in 1890, and other pitchers (have there been other pitchers?) do not get credit. Vidor 05:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Vidor, you may well be correct, and I suspect that you are, but I just checked the reference again, and I don't see what you are referring to that specifically says that a road losing pitcher in a nine-inning game doesn't get credit for a no-hitter. The reference merely says that the GAME must consist of nine innings. A home win which is eight and a half innings DOES "consist... of at least nine innings" and so there's no reason why the losing road pitcher shouldn't get credit for a no-hitter according to that phrasing. Does anyone have an explicit reference? If indeed you are correct, Vidor, then perhaps the newspaper article should read, "Smith pitched a complete game zero-hitter, but he did not pitch a complete game no-hitter." HolyT 16:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

A road losing pitcher would by definition not pitch nine innings because the home team would not bat in the bottom of the ninth. He would only pitch eight, thus, no no-hitter. Eight and a half is less than nine. Hawkins and King do not get credit. See the list at Retrosheet and the MLB.com list (MLB.com would not list King in any case because they do not list no-hitters from defunct leagues). Vidor 03:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No-hitter last game of the season

The article says the only no-hitter pitched on the last day of the season was Mike Witt's perfect game in 1984. What about the 4-man combined no-hitter pitched by the A's on the last day of the 1975 season? FHSerkland 17:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Looked it up, and you're right. Added. — Demong talk 20:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Note on two no-hitters on the same day

While lots of sources will say that Stewart and Valenzuela's games in 1990 were the only time two no-hitters were thrown on the same day, actually two no-hitters were thrown on the same day in 1898. I would guess that this is b/c some sources confine themselves to the modern era. I changed the article to reflect the 1898 no-nos on the same day. Vidor 00:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strikeouts Only

Is there a name for a perfect game in which all outs are strikeouts? It looks like the record for strikeouts in a full game is 20, so this has never happened, but it seems like it would be the real pinnacle of pitching achievement. dclayh 20:44, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

No, because it's never happened. — Demong talk 23:49, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
How is that the "real pinnacle of pitching achievement"? I would say the real pinnacle is a perfect game where only one pitch is needed to get out each hitter. Of course, there's no name for it either since it's even more unlikely to happen. --Horoball 00:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, 27 pitches, 27 ground outs and fly outs, distributing the work, and the glory. "Strikeouts are fascist, ground balls are democratic." -- Kevin Costner in Bull Durham. However, there's more to it than that joke. Is a no-hitter a team effort, or is it just the pitcher-and-catcher? Well, unless he strikes out all 27, it's at least in part a team effort. Don Larsen's perfect game was saved by a terrific running catch by Mickey Mantle. Bobo Holloman's no-hitter was saved by terrific defense all around, as he was not really much of a pitcher. In a way, 27 strikeouts would be "easier", as it would never test anyone in the field (except the catcher). 27 strikeouts would be the ultimate "battery" achievement. 27 pitches and 27 outs would be the ultimate "team" achievement. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Larsen's perfect game was also saved by a Jackie Robinson line drive that caromed off third baseman Andy Carey's glove to shortstop Gil McDougald, who threw Robinson out by less than a step.MrHaroldG2000 (talk) 23:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
That's true. That was on Larsen's second pitch in the top of the 2nd inning. Nobody knew then that a perfect game was in progress. And just another illustration of the old adage, "baseball is a game of inches." Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 06:53, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clay Buchholz

Listen, I think his no-hitter is awesome, too. But some overzealous Red Sox fans are putting in too much detail about that one game. This is an article devoted to no-hitters going back for 130 years, over two hundred of them. There should not be a whole paragraph about one game. There are other places that info can go, like 2007 Boston Red Sox season or Clay Buchholz. Vidor 05:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Negro League No-Hitters

Can someone with any knowledge of it post it in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.226.239.87 (talk) 15:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No-no...

...is parent-to-baby talk, like "boo-boo" and such stuff as that. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

No it isn't. You made that connection. It doesn't otherwise exist. — Demong talk 00:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
"No-no" is a long-standing baby-talk expression. Where's the evidence that it was independently invented for "no-hit no-run"? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
"No-no" may mean other things, just like a lot of words and phrases have multiple meanings, but in baseball "no-no" is shorthand for "no hits no runs", not babytalk. — Demong talk 00:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Where's the evidence for that assertion? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Hm, I can't find a reliable source that says "no-no means 'no hits no runs'", but that's relatively common knowledge, isn't it? I haven't ever heard anyone suggest that "no-no" is babytalk, yet a quick google will give you thousands of examples of official baseball people (MLB.com also) using the term frequently and interchangeably with "no-hitter"... how about you give evidence for the babytalk assertion, which is vastly less obvious? — Demong talk 00:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
"No-no", as in "That's a no-no", as in "That's something you're not supposed to do, junior", was around long before "no-no" for no-hitter, which cropped up in more recent years, probably from the fertile imaginations of the ESPN writers. It's not listed in my copy of the Dickson Baseball Dictionary published in 1991, which provides a hint of how recent its usage is. Here's an article I found at random that's a play on both uses of the expression: [3] Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Here's a random fan discussion in which the term "no-no" is being used in reference to a game that had a final score of 7-1. Not a usable source for wikipedia, but an indication that the notion that it means "no hit no run" is not universally agreed upon. [4] Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Another random discussion [5] that equates "no-no" to no-hitter, not to "no hit no run". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Here's a theoretically more reliable source, a writeup in the New York Times about Andy Hawkins who pitched a no-hitter and lost 4-0. [6] Dave Righetti advised him to "just think of it as a no-no", the writer saying "no-no" is baseball slang for "no-hitter" (obviously not "no hit no run"). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:23, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I still think that's what "no-no" means, but even if it definitely does, it wouldn't be accurate, because (as stated later in the article) runs can be scored against a pitcher that throws an official no-hitter. I think the compromise (of neither adjective nor definition) is best. — Demong talk 01:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes. Unless we can get a definitive explanation of its origin (because it's only been in recent years that they've called it that), our only safe factual ground is to state that it's a synonym for no-hitter; there's no dispute about that. I'm curious to know where it came from, but as with many slang terms, it might be hard to pin down. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baseball Bugs: "child-like expression" and "linescore"

Two points:

1) Why did you add "child-like expression" before "no-no"? That is subjective, irrelevant, and clutters the first sentence of the article, which is the most important. It's frequently called a "no-no" (esp by certain sportscasters) and it is not childlike.

2) Why "line score" instead of the official term "box score", which also had a link to an article on baseball box scores? — Demong talk 00:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

TV broadcasts don't show box scores on commercial breaks, they only show line scores. If they showed the entire box score, it would take the entire commercial break to read it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, you're right; will keep it line score but make that a link to baseball box score, which has a line score at the top. Striking "child-like". — Demong talk 00:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
As a compromise, striking both "childlike" and the unsupported assertion that it stands for "no hit no run". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Ergh, okay... — Demong talk 00:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

One more quibble on something I deleted and you replaced: "References in this article are up to date through the 2007 regular season and post-season games."

The intro section does not refer specifically to MLB, but to no-hitters in baseball generally. This sentence should definitely not be in the lead, and arguably doesn't have any value at all... why put it anywhere? — Demong talk 00:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You might have a point about that. The reason I put it there was to get around various random and inconsistent references in the notes section that said "through the [yyyy] season". Simpler to remove those and put it in one place. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 00:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Disagree, Wikipedia isn't the place for disclaimers. At the very least, please move it somewhere into "No-hitters in MLB", if you don't strike it entirely. — Demong talk 00:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I qualified it, but maybe moving it is better. And it's not a "disclaimer", it's an explanation. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Word. — Demong talk 01:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, you could go back into each individual reference to a record and say "through the 2007 season", if you see value in that vs. a single line that covers it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:13, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
No I just meant that sounds fine; if someone else cares more than I do they can go through it :P but it would be better to just keep all references as up-to-date as possible... that line becomes a disclaimer once the 2008 season starts, etc. — Demong talk 01:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't sure what you meant by "word", and I'm still not. In any case, I moved it into the major league section and thus removed the redundant reference to "major league". And once the 2008 season starts to happen, it can be modified as needed. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
"Word up", basically, just affirmative :) — Demong talk 01:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know that one. Must be a young, hip expression. I'm neither. :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 03:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)