Talk:New York School

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The New York School which represented the New York abstract expressionists of the 1950s was documented through a series of exhibitions commenced with the 9th Street Art Exhibition in 1951 and followed by consecutive exhibitions at the Stable Gallery, NYC: Second Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture, 1953; Third Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture, 1954; Fourth Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture, 1955; Fifth Annual Exhibitions of Painting and Sculpture, 1956 and Sixth New York Artists’ Annual Exhibition, 1957.[1]; [2]; [3]; [4]; [5]; [6]

1957 represented the end of the New York School and the beginning of Pop Art and the following movements. Changing dates in the article without any reference in my opinion is inappropriate. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia. It is free for all to participate in but it is not free to alter without reference.

The “List of New York School artists of the 1950s” was modified with the addition of “and 1960s.” A number of names were added with birthdates of 1945 and 1947. This means that the artists were 13 and 15 years old in 1960. There is no reference as to the justification of their inclusion. Upon deletion they were reverted. The “List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s” should be clarified for the following reason: Comment: I think "New York School" is not completely interchangeable with Abstract Expressionism. Certainly there were non-NY abstract expressionists. I'm not sure the term "New York School" was widely applied to anyone who was not an abstract expressionist. I think a list might be better; I also think we need to clarify the criteria for inclusion, because something like this is useless to the reader if criteria are not clear. - Jmabel | Talk 03:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC) (Salmon1 (talk) 01:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC))


Contents

[edit] Deletion of duplicate names of artists in the article New York School

I wonder if you could help me to solve the following problem: One year ago when I started to edit Wikipedia I tried to create a Category: New York School artists. This attempt was deleted. Category: New York School artists. The Category was deleted but the comments requested the list of the New York School artists.

i.e.: Comment: I think "New York School" is not completely interchangeable with Abstract Expressionism. Certainly there were non-NY abstract expressionists. I'm not sure the term "New York School" was widely applied to anyone who was not an abstract expressionist. I think a list might be better; I also think we need to clarify the criteria for inclusion, because something like this is useless to the reader if criteria are not clear. - Jmabel | Talk 03:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

In the past I listed the New York School artists of the 1950s. The list changed by the addition of artists who were not New York School artists and the dates of birth showed that some of the newly listed artists in 1950 had to be 3 or 5 years old or 13 and 15 in 1960. When you looked at the biographies of these artists it became clear that they did not belong to the list of New York School artists. (New York School artists are not equivalent to artists from New York City.) Some of the other added artists had nothing to do with this specific group of abstract expressionists. I added new references and reentered the list of artists under the newly referenced title so the readers would find the information through clear criteria. The problem is at hand that now there is the old list which has a number of duplicate entries. I would like to delete the duplicate names for the sake of clarity. I believe that the list:List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s is blocked for editing. Would you be kind enough to let me know how to proceed? Thank you for your attention. Sincerely, (Salmon1 (talk) 19:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC))

There isn't an article List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s. If you click the link, you can start it. Tyrenius (talk) 01:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
==List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s== is a paragraph in the article New York School which is the present concern.

In the past I listed the New York School artists of the 1950s. The list changed by the addition of artists from the 1960s who were not New York School artists and the dates of birth showed that some of the newly added artists had to be 3 or 5 years old in the 1950s or 13 and 15 in 1960. When you looked at the biographies of these artists it became clear that they did not belong to the list of New York School artists. (New York School artists are not equivalent to artists from New York City.) Some of the other added artists had nothing to do with this specific group of abstract expressionists.

I added new references and a paragraph:==New York School abstract expressionists of the 1950s== following with ==Complete List of Artists' Participation in the New York Painting and Sculpture Annuals, 1951-1957==. I reentered the list of artists under the newly referenced title so the readers would find the information through clear criteria.

The problem at hand is that now there is the modified old list: ==List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s== which has a number of duplicate entries. I would like to delete the duplicate names for the sake of clarity. I believe that the list:List of New York School artists of the 1950s and 1960s is blocked for editing. Would you be kind enough to let me know how to proceed? Thank you. (Salmon1 (talk) 01:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC))

I can't see any block on the article. You should be able to edit it. Could you please try to be more succinct in your posts and not repeat the same information. It becomes quite an ordeal to read it. All you had to say was that the list is in the article. Thanks. Tyrenius (talk) 03:11, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the help. I am able to edit now. I will try to be more succinct. Sincerely, (Salmon1 (talk) 16:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Lists

These long lists would be better as separate pages and are not suitable for embedding in a standard article. If moved, edit summaries need to state clearly what has been done for GFDL purposes. Tyrenius (talk) 11:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply to Lists

I would like to respond to your statement.

1. The article New York School represents an important era in the post-war American art history. The artists' names were listed originally in the article as one list until the list was modified and a new properly referenced list, “==Complete List of Artists' Participation in the New York Painting and Sculpture Annuals, 1951-1957==” was required. [7]; [8]; [9]; [10]; [11]; [12]

2. When the names were moved to the new list each edit summary clearly stated what had been done. Please review each move.

3. The representation of artists has been an accepted method in the past for “standard articles” on Contemporary art describing movements or trends. The following examples demonstrate it:

The “==List of artists from the New York art scene of the 1950s and 1960s==” at present includes a number of artists who were part of the New York School scene at the time. The list still requires references for the justification of inclusion in this parallel list. I intend to provide those references.

Vandalism appears in many forms. To prevent it requires strict verifiability of text:

WP:NPOV, WP:V WP:NOR WP:ATT and WP:BLP.

Sincerely, (Salmon1 (talk) 21:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC))

  1. ^ 9th Street Art Exhibition,
  2. ^ Second Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  3. ^ Third Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  4. ^ Fourth Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  5. ^ Fifth Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  6. ^ 6th New York Artists' 6th Annual Exhibition.
  7. ^ 9th Street Art Exhibition,
  8. ^ Second Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  9. ^ Third Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  10. ^ Fourth Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  11. ^ Fifth Annual Exhibition of Painting and Sculpture,
  12. ^ New York Artists' 6th Annual Exhibition.

[edit] Reply to reply to lists

Not really succinct, and mostly nothing to do with the point raised. To sum up your reply: you think the lists should remain in the article, because other articles have lists in them. Whether a list stays in an article or is separated out with a link depends on the length of the list(s). These are somewhat excessive to sit comfortably - thanks no doubt to your good work. Tyrenius (talk) 21:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Further reply

Thank you for your immediate response. Those who are interested in the subject will find the encyclopedic presentation most useful. The most difficult and unique contribution in the list of the “==Complete List of Artists' Participation in the New York Painting and Sculpture Annuals, 1951-1957==” is that it was derived from the exhibition posters. The list as such only exists in the book New York School Abstract Expressionists Artists Choice by Artists, and now it is easily accessible to all. Sincerely, (Salmon1 (talk) 21:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC))