Talk:New Democrats

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Article Grading: The following comments were left by the quality and importance raters: (edit · refresh) I am a Canadian user of Wikipedia and I feel I must protest the choice of subject for this page. "New Democrat" in American usage is just a buzzword term for a faction in the the Democratic Party of the US, and what appears to be a temporary faction, at that. Yet this usage has been given precedence in the article on New Democrat (New Democrats), when the New Democratic Party (NDP), whose membership refer to themselves as New Democrat (New Democrats), is an important and powerful political party in Canada. The New Democrats in Canada have existed since 1960 and will remain an important political party well after the term "New Democrat" in its American usage attenuates to a historical trivia question. That being the case, I submit that the Canadian definition of the term is the most important one for encyclopedic coverage, over the American one. If Wikipedia is indeed an international effort and an internet encyclopedia for the world, then Amerocentric editorial policy (the American definition is most important simply because it's the American definition) has no place in the effort. My position may be biased by my own nationality, and I would invite other contributors from third party, non interested countries to weigh in on this. Again, though, I must reiterate, the definition of an established, ongoing, major political party in one nation is of greater import and should take precedence over a transitory polisci descriptive from another. 24.69.160.130 (talk) 05:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)ragged-gothic

Contents 1 POV 2 Advert 3 Disputed 4 Recent edits 5 Merge proposal

[edit] POV

Can we try and replace the word moderate with something else here? Left of the GOP, right of the liberal wing etc. Moderate has a slippery POV to it. Marskell 08:22, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

As it stands now, however, the article is POV -- "neoliberal" and "centre-right"? Come on! --Thorsen 05:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advert

This page needs work. It read like an Advert for the ND-PAC, so I have flagged it here in Discussion as such. The flag probably belongs on the article page. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog. The article must clearly distinguish the "loosely-organized faction within the Dem party" from the PAC created in 2006. For clarification, when referring to the PAC please use ND-PAC (after the first use, when it is spelled out). Change "traditional Democratic" to "1960s Democratic", because it is more accurate. (Reagan Democrats reacted against hippies, long hair, drugs, the anti-Vietnam protests, secularism, homosexuality, etc., which were not issues among New Deal Democrats -- the tradition.) "Clinton was a classic" should be "Clinton epitomized" (he can't be compared to a non-existing "classic" if he is the origin). In politics, the source of funding must always be identified -- this is the first rule of politics, cui bono. ~~

"most [liberal Democrats] would eventually admit ... that social programs should be more effective" -- this sounds like a sermon: no-one would suggest that social programs should be less effective. Initially flagged {sermon}, but that's not quite it, actually it's a Straw man, so redacted instead.

[edit] Disputed

Is there any real proof that the people on this list are actually "New Democrats"? My issue started with the fact that Christine Gregoire has advocated politically, in a social sense, very liberal politics. This goes against what being a "New Democrat" is all about. Has anyone actually looked into whether or not these people are what they are claimed to be in this list? Dante the Bard 16:55, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Membership in an organization does not always equal sharing beliefs with said organization. The DLC/New Democrats are a prime example. Jim Doyle's a member of the New Democrat Coalition as well, but he's pretty liberal. Vic Snyder is also fairly liberal, as is Debbie Stabenow (who had a liberal score somewhere in the 80's range from the National Journal in 2005, which is high). I think most of the members of the DLC/New Democrats are doing it to improve their image with the voters, not because they actually believe in most of the DLC/New Democrat's goals. 1ne 21:40, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

If that is the case, then perhaps we should put that information into the article. I feel that to be objective, which would equal factual, we need to provide information that although these candidates are apart of a specific organization, the DLC, there are examples of members going against what the term "New Democrat" and the DLC believe. I won't be able to make any changes to the article right away, because I have real life obligations at the moment, but if you or someone else can make these changes sooner, that would be great. Otherwise, I will make the changes when I have the time. Dante the Bard 22:17, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edits

I have done an almost complete and bold rewrite of this article. For one I have removed all of the pov, the areas written like an advert and most of the unsubstantiated claims. I have added new information, all of which is well referenced and have written the article to make it understandable, adding subsections to make the article clearer. I have also expanded the lead to make it fit with the rest of the article. I have attempted to deal with all issues raised on the discussion and would like to point out that new democrats listed can all be found via the DLC sites and the New Democrat associated movements. Best. LordHarris 00:13, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge proposal

What do you think about merging this article with New Democrat Coalition? --Checco 18:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I support it. —Nightstallion 11:53, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I oppose a merge. "New Democrat" is a label claimed by several different groups to describe their political platform. The New Democrat Coalitions in the House and Senate are just two of these groups. The Democratic Leadership Council and NDN (formerly known as the New Democrat Network) are two others. If any of these groups doesn't justify an article of their own, I could see them being merged as a section into the New Democrat article, but the New Democrat article itself should not be merged into the article for any of these groups. (Also posted on Talk:New Democrat Coalition.) -- Shunpiker (talk) 01:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)