Talk:New College of Florida

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Contents

[edit] Motto/Mission

New College's Motto (as per the NCF governing documents is: There is more to running a starship than answering a bunch of damn fool questions

The Mission is: That the natural state of the human spirit is ecstatic wonder! That we should not settle for less!

Currently, I have the motto on the main page changed to match the constitution. It is sort of a silly motto, though. Is there any way we can include both of these statements in the info-box?


Any particular reason the motto was deleted from the infobox? Unless somebody objects, I'm putting it back in. Just because it's light-hearted doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be there. Nevah 18:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC) (NCF Alum)

I don't think it should be there. It's not that's it light hearted, but that it not really NCF's motto in the way that matters. Ask yourself, do members of the NCF community say and associate this phrase with the school on a regular basis? As a student their I never once heard that phrase, and I think its inaccurate and disingenuous to put it in such prominent place on a page witch purportedly gives an accurate description of what New College is.Nsb3000
Fair enough. 68.56.78.150 18:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. The motto for other state schools is equally unknown. For example, the motto for UF is "Civium in moribus rei publicae salus (Latin for "The welfare of the state depends upon the morals of its citizens")" I doubt the students there throw this motto around. The motto of New College IS in the constitution and should thus be listed as such on this page.OngoingCivilUnrest 05:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I think my point above still stands, and I don't think that being in the constitution is pertinent to an article about New College. The NCSA Constitution is just that--it governs the NCSA, not the school. (The Board of Trusties does this)-Nsb3000 01:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
What if, instead, the motto was mentioned in the NCSA section. We could also mention that the constitution has numerous Star Trek references. OngoingCivilUnrest 07:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
That sounds like a good compromise.-Nsb3000 22:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definite Article

It's "New College of Florida," not "The New College of Florida." The "The" neither represents common usage at NCF, nor is grammatically necessary. I have removed the definite article at the beginning of the article. (Note: I am a New College alumnus.)--MitchS 23:43, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the definite article question is debatable, but I can live with it either way. Generally, I think the article is coming along nicely. I don't really like the placement of the pictures right now, but until there is more text, I am not sure what else to do. In any case, I think we should focus on trying to get what is now the "external rankings and reviews" section to something more concise and appropriate . I am not sure who originally wrote it, but I really don't think we need to name each individual full-bright winners (I think we should shy away from naming individual New College students whenever possible, unless they do something truly notable), this just seems excessive. Also, I'm in the camp we should not included a link Malcolm Brenner dolphin lover stuff, as although it is connected to New College, it is not notable in anyway and is offensive to some. But it seems some strongly disagree. So, whatever. --Nsb3000 14:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


Perhaps somebody (who is a little more wikipedia competent) could include a mention or outline of the four guiding principles (http://www.ncf.edu/about/) at the beginning of the "distinguishing academic features" section. Some of the wording is a little strange and misleading "New College's academic structure is designed to get out of the way" and this section is really just summarizing the four principles.

Agreed. I changed it to be more specific. And I reinserted the brighter, more cheeful image from NCF public affairs, as it is the sole NCF image on file in Wikipedia that is offically taken under the direction of NCF. Tripe 00:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure I agree. I was the one who originally wrote the distinguishing academic features section, and my goal was to put up a concise overview of what is distinctive from a student perspective about New College: to me the four things that stood out were Evaluations, Contracts, ISPs, and the Senior Thesis. The four principles, while important, are kind of abstract and I don’t think they would make a lot of sense outside of a much more detailed description of New College’s academic structure. I am not saying we should not have this, just no one has written such a description as of yet.--Nsb3000 14:36, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, here is the description, or rather, the four principles:

1. Each student is responsible in the last analysis for his or her own education;

2. The best education demands a joint search for learning by exciting teachers and able students;

3. Students' progress should be based on demonstrated competence and real mastery rather than on the accumulation of credits and grades; and

4. Students should have, from the outset, opportunities to explore in depth, areas of interest to them.

I changed my mind on this. I went ahead and incorporated the core principles into the fist paragraph of the academic features section.--Nsb3000 18:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I restored most of the images that were up previously, but left the NCF public affairs image up as well. These images are far from perfect, and I hope that over time they will be replaced with more appropriate and better images, but just coming in and deleting them is going too far.

As for the public affairs image, the fact that it is "the sole NCF image on file in Wikipedia that is officially taken under the direction of NCF" has no bearing here...this is Wikipedia, not an NCF admissions hand book. That image is also low resolution, not realistic (in my four years at New College I never once set foot on top of College Hall), of questionable copyright status (Has NCF Public Affairs released that image for publication in Wikiepedia?), and if you look through the history of the NCF page you will see it was generally disliked. I would move that it be deleted again, but let’s see what others think. Nsb3000 14:10, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

(1) If NCF Admissions (BTW, the photo was by Public Affairs, not Admissions) happens to take a more attrative photo than an individual Wikipedia user, Wikipedia is better served by a more attractive photo. (2) The image may be of low resolution; but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with useful image captions, not a place where people can download posters to print out. (3) Your claim that the image is not "realistic" is immaterial because it based on your personal testimony. See Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability. (4) Regarding the copyright status, see the fair use template on the image page. (5) Your claim that if one looks through the page history of the article he or she will find that the image was generally disliked is utter nonsense. I am not alone in having restored the image; in fact, multiple users have been doing the same in response to your attempt to remove it. In sum, I would move that it be reinserted and kept, with no need to wait for further opinions, as the consensus from the page history clearly seems to be behind keeping the image. Tripe 04:12, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Let me responed to your points one more time:
  1. Your augment that the public affairs image is "more attractive" is not a good argument for inclusion in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia, with a neutral point of view, not a publicity or promotional tool for any organization. (see Wikipedia is not a soap box)
  2. While it is true that many images are viewed in the context of an article, where a low resolution version of the image is displayed, I don't think anyone would dispute that users are better served by having links to high resolution versions for those that choose or desire to look at images in other sizes. Your claim that Wikipedia is "not a place where people can download posters to print out" is inaccurate; I suggest you take a look at the Wikipedia Featured Pictures page for a long list of some of the other high-resolution images available on Wikipedia.
  3. In my opinion, I feel the public affairs image is "unrealistic" or, more accurately, unrepresentative, for two reasons. The main reason is that it is a posed, promotional photograph, that was taken for the sake of advertising the school, and as I stated previsouly, I feel this type of content should only be included as a last resort. Secondarily, (and this is what I was alluding to earlier)it is also worth noting that the roof of College hall is inaccessible to students, meaning it would be impossible for students to actually hang out up there, as the image suggests.
  4. As for the copyright status, you suggest that we "see the fair use template on the image page." The fair use copyright notice on the image that you cite explicitly states that the fair use exception is only valid "in the absence of a free alternative". We now have multiple alternative images. (See Wikipedia's Fair Use page)
  5. I'll admit that upon looking over the page history again, I may have been over-reaching when I said the image was "generally disliked". However, I would point you to this [1] edit by MikeWDC, where the caption for the image was changed to this snarky text: "This is a promotional photo. Students are not allowed on the roof, its accessways are kept locked, and students caught there are charged with trespassing."
Given the above points, and given the fact that we now have multiple alternative images for which the point of view is not in dispute, that are of high resolution, and for which the copyright status is clear, it seems to me to that the best thing to do is remove the public affairs image and leave the other images up. However, given the dispute, the sensible thing at moment is to keep both sets of images up until we can reach some sort consensus on the issue.
--Nsb3000 20:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
It has been more than two weeks since I made the above post and no one has responded. So, due to the fair use violation issue I am going to remove the public affairs image. I continue to be open to debate and discussion on this issue if anybody wants to talk about this further.
--Nsb3000 22:57, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Senior Thesis

I changed the senior thesis description to include a note about the different forms a thesis can take, and I also removed the last comment about how it may take longer than four years to complete. I'm sure we all know our fair share of "fifth year" students and probably some who completed everything within 7 semesters as well. Regardless, New College's graduation rates are above the national averages so I don't think it's worth mentioning that it might take more than 4 years.

Looks good! --Nsb3000 18:31, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reversion

I just wanted to put a general notice that people should be careful when doing reversions. Even though at first glance it might seem like the fastest restore previous edits, if your not careful, you risk erasing other beneficial edits that have occurred in the meantime. The safest thing to do is to change the things your want changed, rather than revert the page, and I recommend that everyone familiarize themselves with Wikipedia's [[revert| Reversion policies] before using this feature indiscriminately.--Nsb3000 18:52, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mascot

can somebody familiar with this website change the mascot to [ ] ? thanks!

I thought about this before, about whether it should be the "Open Set". The problem is, most people will not understand what this means and will interpret it as a typo. --Nsb3000 18:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It's actually the "Empty Set" rather then the "Open Set". I don't see why we can't simply say "The mastcot of New College is {} (The Empty set)". Hell, we can even wikify the "Empty Set" to the Wikipedia page, so people will know we are serious. Also, it should be noted that empty brackets, [], are not the Empty set. This is: {} see article Empty set --OngoingCivilUnrest 16:20 06/01/06

If you look at the NCSA Constitution (available at the NCSA website under external links), you will see that the mascot is "[]", not "{}". And for those who are curious, here's the story of how "[]" came to be the mascot: The mascot used to be "Brownie the Dog," but the dog died. During a subsequent overhaul of the NCSA Constitution, the dog was taken out but nobody was able to agree on a new mascot. So we just left the brackets. (Note: I was NCSA President about a decade ago) -- CoramVobis 02:02, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Well then, when I get back to school in the fall, I am going to pass a special referendum to change the mascot from [] to {}. So watch out wikipedia, I'll be back. -- OngoingCivilUnrest 19:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Feel free, of course! I've always believe each generation of Novo Collegians should reinvent the wheel and not feel so bound by the traditions of their forbears -- that's what college is about (contrary to a letter the Catalyst once received from an original author of the NCSA constitution alleging that too many changes had been made to the document)! But in doing so, you should realize that calling the mascot "the Empty Set" is a sort of symbological back-formation, because the brackets were left there without the intent of them representing anything, and only later did students starting calling the mascot "The Empty Set." From there it was a short leap to thinking that they were intended to be the empty set, and from there another short leap to thinking that a typographical error was made. Ah, institutional memory! It's always most important where it doesn't exist. But seriously. Change the friggin' mascot to SOMETHING. It's been way too long. CoramVobis 03:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Police Department

I was wondering, why is this considered notable? --Keremm

It's not. In the past, there was a separate article for the Police Department by itself. But this got put up for deletion because of non-notability. Because the Police Department is an actual entity, it was thought it was best to merge it with the New College article despite its non-notability.
--Nsb3000 16:40, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I have taken the police department section out, since nobody has stepped forward to defend its notability, and it really looked odd in there.
--CoramVobis 02:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable things

I was hoping someone more experienced than myself can mention some of the following: the size of the student body, the student government, housing and the lack thereof, the plans for new dorms. --Keremm

If you have something you think should be added, I would just go ahead and write it. Don't worry about the style or format--others can fix that latter if needed.--Nsb3000 15:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motto again

I find it extraordinarily unlikely that "Herpes is groovy!" is the official motto of NCF. If it is, please provide a source. Do not add it again without one. -- SCZenz 20:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That is, most assuredly, NOT the motto. The entity of New College actually has no motto, only a mission. To my dismay, NCF's mission is rather long and doesn't lend itself to encapsulation within an info-box. The NCSA (student government) does have a mission and motto, and these are mentioned in the article. OngoingCivilUnrest 16:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)