Talk:New Apostolic Church
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Please see http://www.naki.de/_nak_eng/nak_lehre_e.htm for a more detailed translation the the doctrines of the new apostolic church.
Copyright Violation: - DeSinT 12:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- New_Apostolic_Church#Voluntary_Donations_and_Working_in_an_Honorary_Capacity
- New_Apostolic_Church#The_New_Apostolic_Creed
- New_Apostolic_Church#Individual_Pastoral_Care
- New_Apostolic_Church#Decentralised_Structures_and_Duties_of_Ministries
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[edit] This page is not written in an impartial manner.
Articles should be written in an impartial and scholarly manner, not as advertisement, propaganda, or recruitment vehicles.
- POV tag added. The page sounds as if it were a listing from some sort of denominational handbook. Much of the information sounds good — although in an obviously sympathetic manner — but there are deeper problems with other bits, such as the reason for the split (at the bottom of the History section) and the thing about ministers being without training, just as in the original church. Nyttend 21:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Accounting
removed: and no financial accountability or reporting to the members at all
see: http://www.nak-nl.org/data/resources/File/jaarcijfers_nak_2004.pdf (in Dutch) - DeSinT 23:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Not true, that is only a for the church in the netherlands, further it is only a simplistic pie chart. Most other disticts refuse to open their books and give their members any financial account of their activities, nor does NAKI. 71.245.147.128 00:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- I removed most of the material in this section as unsourced specualtion, and briefly rewrote the rest. I also added an "unreferenced" tag, because there are no sources cited at all. Doc Tropics 00:45, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
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- I agree. This is something that needs outside research first before it becomes encyclopedic. The lack of available info on this topic does not merit trying to make WP into a primary source. Enourage your local investigative reporter to delve into this issue. --Vees 21:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
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- According to the Dutch NAC website (3 January 2007) the German and Swiss church published their financial reports in the Unsere Familie of november (the official NAC magazine). (Publicatie financiële jaarcijfers 2005 - In navolging van de Nieuw-Apostolische Kerk in Duitsland en Zwitserland (zie het internationale kerktijdschrift Onze Familie, nr. 11, 2006), publiceert de Nieuw-Apostolische Kerk in Nederland haar financiële jaarcijfers van 2005. Klik voor de details hier - Annual report publication 2005 - Following the New Apostolic Church in Germany and Switzerland (see the international church magazine Onze Familie, number 11, 2006) the New Apostolic Church in the Netherlands publishes her annual report 2005. Click for details here) - DeSinT 00:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
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- The investigative reporter would not be able to prove that which does not exist, merely the lack of information. The regional churches (districts) report to the legal minimun on income from all sources and expenditures. In the UK, a report must be filed with the Charity Commision, in the USA, the Church is not required to file anything as a 503c, and nothing is available for members. Minimal state filings exist as the church operates as a corporation. FYI, the name is commonly just the initials (NAC). Would this be allowed - The NAC, while stating finances are derived from voluntary donations, provides no statistics beyond reporting to the legal minimum. In the United States, no legal minimum exists, therefore accounting for contributions, income from investments and disbursements is not available to the membership-at-large. - KbbSchindos 03:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Catholic Apostolic Church
" The main point of their gospel was the imminent return of Jesus Christ and spreading the sacrament of the Holy Sealing (to be compared with confirmation)" is not supported in either C. Grahams Flegg's "Gathered Under Apostles" or in G. Alan Mast's "The Eucharistic Service of the CAC and its Influence..." The CAC sought to hasten the return of Jesus Christ by returning the Church (universal) to a perfect form. Sealing was introduced later, in 1847, initially for ministers and was voluntary, and was to enliven one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, namely the gift of power. Compare with the NAC in which Holy Sealing is the third of three sacraments (along with Baptism and Communion), in which the Holy Spirit is dispensed by an Apostle and is required to partake in the return of Christ. This allusion to the CAC Holy Sealing and its purpose, and therefore to NAC Holy Sealing is erroneous. - KbbSchindos 04:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External (Unaffiliated) links deleted
On June 25, a non-registered user editted the page by removing the external/unaffiliated links Given the limited scope of the article, and the paucity of third party material to draw from, this is a grave disservice to anyone wanting to know about the New Apostolic church other than what has been cut-and-pasted from the primay church website, which is clearly not a neutral point of view. As such, I propose restoring the external links
KbbSchindos 02:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
The External (Unaffiliated) Links have been restored, as no objection to such action has been discussed in the past three days
KbbSchindos 19:32, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
On 3/19/2008, an external link was removed citing per external link guideline (specifically discussion boards). The link was restored, also per the external link guideline: "This page documents an English Wikipedia style guideline. It is a generally accepted standard that editors should follow, though it should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception. When editing this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page." So common sense and exceptions are not excluded. Additionally, discussion boards are not absolutely excluded, "should avoid" is the term used in that section. The reason for this exception is the restored links leads to the only active English language site documenting church past and present, via primary material posted for reference, historic summaries, and analysis. KbbSchindos (talk) 01:38, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
On 3/23/2008, once again the external links were editted. Two dead links were removed, which is understandable. However, its amazing how individuals will make such edits, as they have no doubt about their actions, without ever looking at the discussion page. The use of bots allows such targetting, but there is no comprehension of the material or why such links have value to those seeking information. Links restored. Its interesting that so far, none of WP's minders will touch the Rainbow NAC link, yet that one has the most limited information, and another link as it appears to meet "guidelines" is not removed, yet that site does not reference source or provide primary material. A discussion board site is targetted as it is easy to discern as such, without any regard for content. Some of the unreferenced sites material is lifted directly from the discussion board, which maintains archives, history etc with clear sources. Which is more valuable as additional information? KbbSchindos (talk) 17:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] History
The History has been expanded significantly regarding the beginning of this sect Level of detail due to the history of schisms within this body, even from its early leaders.
Sources referenced.
KbbSchindos 19:08, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External links where the primary language is other than English
Due the lack of material in English beyond the official website, linking to sites that may contain English material/discussion as a subset of the main language would be of value. This will be done after a few days to allow discussion. KbbSchindos 22:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
No objection so several excellent sites added. KbbSchindos (talk) 17:26, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Minor edits - undoing
On October 22 an unregistered editor deleted one line without discussion. I have restored that line and provided citation. If the unregistered editor wishes to discuss the item, please do so here prior to further changes. Deletion without discussion may be considered vandalism and reported KbbSchindos 01:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] naki.de
Hello everybody
These doctrines presented on that website aren't up to date at all. Additional some of his proclaims are wrong, for example 1.6
Someone of the discussion on this webpage said New Apostolic Church wouldn't provide their right doctrine clinically. Of course they do or how could they persuade other people to join them if they didn't present the real doctrine. The Webmaster of naki.de himself sais he would change the proclaims by obtaining updates from New Apostolic Church.
So you should present (additionally) an other reference of doctrine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.222.105 (talk) 07:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
