Talk:Nerium oleander

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[edit] 50 toxic compounds

The article previously claimed oleander contains deadly levels of over 50 toxic compounds. This statement is patently false as it does not reference any quantities — a certain mass of plant material needs to be ingested for a deadly level to be reached. Unfortunately, there is also no reference of any

supporting the claim of '50 toxic compounds'.

As such, I've rephrased this sentence to say that oleander contains 'numerous toxic compounds, many of which can be deadly in even small quantities'.

--PJF (talk) 10:39, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

HELFUL HINTS:

I noticed that in the last paragraph I was not sure if you meant that especially in horses it causes diarrea or colic, you might want to change your wording. The pictures are a nice touch, and the paragraphs are spaced out well. I think that the wording was good, but could use some more references in the script. Arobutz

Thanks for the tips I will look into them. On the topic of merging the articals I must say that at this time I am opposed to this. However that is partialy because I am new and do not understand what all that would mean. If it wher exsplained to me and I understood how the page would be layed out I would consiter it. But at this time I am hapy to have my artical hav a link to the other. --LPW 19:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested merge from Nerium oleander and its toxins

  • Agree fully - there's nothing on the duplicate page that can't be accomodated just as easily here (though it'll need a deal of copyediting in transfer) MPF 22:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Could you tell me what would happen to each is idiotic artical if they were to be merged? thanks --LPW 22:00, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Basically that the two sets of information would be merged into one page with a simple title (one more readily found by a single word search!); nothing need be lost in doing so, only direct duplication would be filtered out. Of the copyediting I mentioned above, I think it has most or all been done now; it could still perhaps benefit from a bit more of an international perspective, using details from the species' native area (e.g. any uses in Chinese, Indian and Arabic traditional medicine, etc). - MPF 01:07, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate/Useless Comments

Within the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleander) the following comment appears:

"However, many people find it quite convenient to poison their children with oleander, as this provides for the parents a cheap and effective way to kill children that they do not like or want."

While mildy amusing, I think this should be removed; unless there is a custom, even or some such thing where children were poisoned with the toxins of this plant, it isn't appropriate.

[edit] Removal of "Ethnomedical uses" section

I've removed the section quoted below:

Quote: Records of the medicinal use of oleander date back at least 3500 years.[citation needed] The Mesopotamians in the 15th century BC believed in the healing properties of oleander[citation needed] and the ancient Babylonians used a mixture of oleander and licorice to treat hangovers[citation needed]. Roman soldiers also regularly took an oleander extract for hangovers[citation needed]. Pliny, the Elder of ancient Greece, wrote about the appearance and properties of oleander[citation needed]. Arab physicians first used oleander as a cancer treatment in the 8th century AD[citation needed].

Centuries later, in the 1633 edition of "The Herbal, or General History of Plants", the author John Gerard says of oleander: "This tree being outwardly applied, as Galen saith, hath a digesting faculty; but if it be inwardly taken it is deadly and poisonsome, not only to men, but also to most kinds of beasts. The flowers and leaves kill dogs, asses, mules, and very many of other four footed beasts: but if men drink them in wine they are a remedy against the bitings of Serpents, and the rather if Rue be added. The weaker sort of cattle, as sheep and goats, if they drink the water wherein the leaves have been steeped, are sure to die." which indicates knowledge that the raw plant is poisonous, but that extracts of the plant were used medicinally. An oleander extract much like the home remedy known as "oleander soup" is most likely the magic healing potion that led to the witchcraft accusation against Rebecca[citation needed], the beautiful Jewish woman from the Holy Land, in Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe".

In recent centuries, oleander has continued to be used in folk remedies and in commercial preparations. In 1966 Doctor H. Z. Ozel in Turkey in 1966 re-discovered a centuries old oleander extract remedy, which he later refined and patented as Anvirzel, which he has used with great success for the past 40 years in treating cancer and other cell proliferative diseases[citation needed]. Nerium oleander extract and Anvirzel have been the subject of numerous trials and studies, most notably those led by MD Anderson researcher Doctor Robert Newman, and Anvirzel has passed US FDA phase I trials[citation needed].

In European studies in the 1980s, the nerium oleander extract was found to have six times the immune stimulating activity of the most powerful patented immune stimulators[citation needed].

The home-remedy version of nerium oleander extract is modeled after Doctor Ozel's patent for Anvirzel and is called "oleander soup". This remedy is used to treat cancer, hepatitis-C, psoriasis, HIV and other conditions, and is made by precise directions for boiling, condensing and straining according to the recipe for making the soup which is available on the internet as well as in published form. When further condensed and made into a skin creme, the remedy is used to get rid of warts, moles, age spots and pre-cancerous lesions.

Oleander leaf extract is also taken to treat congestive heart disease[citation needed]. No one should attempt to make their own oleander remedy without precise directions and oleander should only be taken after consultation with an experienced herbalist and physician because it is a highly toxic poison in raw form that may be lethal to humans and animals in even doses as small as one leaf. End Quote

I've removed as it is unreferenced to credible sources and makes extraordinary claims. Please do not add it back in without citations to respected peer-reviewed works or similar. WLDtalk|edits 21:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The above section was re-added by User:Dquixote1217 without providing sources of any type. If you are Dquixote1217, please read the Wikipedia policy on verifiability here: Wikipedia:Verifiability and provide sources that comply with that policy. Thanks. WLDtalk|edits 06:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Dquixote1217/Tony Isaacs - there is a Wikipedia policy of No Original Research, and citing your own publication as a reference is not allowed under policy as well. Did you read the policy on verifiability linked to above? If not, I recommend it, and reading around the area as well. You should provide references for all your assertions, including those in the first paragraph concerning the Mesopotamians, Babylonians, and Pliny. All of Pliny's writings are out of copyright, so you should be able to link to text supporting the statement, if nothing else. Citing your own book just is not acceptable. WLDtalk|edits 09:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, in the quoted text above, I have indicated where you need to provide individual citations for the statements made. Referreing to your own book doesn't meet the requirement, I'm afraid. WLDtalk|edits 12:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Foxfroggy 15:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC) It was entirely appropriate to delete that material which lacks credible support. Contributions to various websites do not confer expert status, and the claims made lack reliable support, as do those about the drug formulary. An objective reporting of the therapeutic value of this plant would be of interest.

[edit] Tony Isaacs/Dquixote1217 from Wikipedia:New_user_log#Introducing_myself

[edit] Introducing myself

My actual name is Tony Isaacs, and I am a natural health researcher and author of books and articles about natural health including the e-book "Cancer's Natural Enemy", which has sold in over 15 countries and is featured on prominent natural and alternative health websites, and the popular article 'Modern Medicine versus Nature in Treating Cancer". I also have a website in progress for baby boomers and others wishing to live longer, healthier and happier lives (The Best Years in Life) and I serve as a featured writer and consultant to the Utopia Silver company and their Silver Bulletin e-Newsmagazine. I am currently working on a natural health book project due for publication next year.

In 2005, I helped a multi-agency government probe expose a fake cancer drug scheme which resulted in the indictment and of four co-defendants (see http://www.tbyil.com/mystory.htm) and the operation being discontinued. I also assisted in exposing a string of fake medicine websites promoting fake cures for Cancer, the flu, migraine headaches and other illnesses that led to a three part feature of the week special on Fox News and action by the FDA in shutting down the bogus operations.

At the popular CureZone website (one of the two most popular natural health websites and forums) I have my own forum "Ask Tony Isaacs". I am also the owner/moderator of the Yahoo Health Group "Oleandersoup", and I am a regular contributor to Curezone, CancerCompass, the Jon Barron blog and the Dr. Mercola blogsite, and others as well.

I believe that mainstream medicine is unbeatable when it comes to physical trauma and broken or damaged body parts; however, when the same method of treating only the parts where the symptoms of underlying problems (such as tumors) manifest themselves, it uses a failed approach - as witnessed by over a half century of increasing incidences of cancer and cancer deaths despite constant promises of a cure or breakthrough being right around the corner. I am also no fan of the 15,000 plus FDA approved medications, 95% of which have side effects that often lead to other drugs or worse in a never ending cycle. It is a great model for profits, but a horrible one for humanity.

Many will disagree with me, and that is to be expected since we and our doctors have been taught that only approved drugs are real medicine, despite mankind's 6000 years of success in treating the whole body and using nutrition and natural plants to beat and ward off illness. For those who think only what we create or synthesize or isolate in a lab (the only patentable, and thus profitable forms) are superior to what nature has provided and what we have adapted alongside for eons, I ask: exactly when did nature become a quack?

Live long, live healthy, live happy!

Tony Isaacs aka Dquixote1217 Dquixote1217 18:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Methods of Poisoning

I think this article could be a little more clear in the ways that Oleander is toxic. Most of the article implies it must be ingested, but also states it causes rashes. To what degree must the plant be touched for this to occur? If it gets into the bloodstream (such as through a cut or something) is it more/less/not-at-all poisonous? Also the general information states that the whole plant is poisonous while in the more specific section about the oil it states only the veins are toxic. I just think this could use some clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.72.131.72 (talk) 07:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I ingested quite a bit of leaves when I was young (12) and although it made me very ill for several days, it obviously did not kill me. I think there probably isn't much research on this, no one knows, and everyone's body is different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kelt65 (talk • contribs) 22:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)