Talk:National Conference of Synagogue Youth

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Judaism Portal
National Conference of Synagogue Youth is part of WikiProject Judaism, a project to improve all articles related to Judaism. If you would like to help improve this and other articles related to the subject, consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Judaism articles.
Project Judaism To-do:
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.

Contents

[edit] History vs Present

I'm not enough of a Wikipidian to feel comfortable modifying an article that's quite as high profile of this one. However.... I do question ShiraHadasha's erasing of the reference to Pinchas Stolper. A couple of sentences about the earlier decades seem in order... particularly when the article, as currently edited, still includes a shout-out to a couple of current NCSY advisors. Yudel 21:13, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I added the Stolper paragraph back in with fluff ("best", "creative", etc.) removed. Best, --Shirahadasha 07:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

Regarding these changes which were made twice (and reverted twice). I personally think that they sound a lot like a personal gripe, and as such have no place in wikipedia. However, if this is in fact a complaint which has been made public about the organization on a national level, then it can go in the article. The test it must pass is verifiability. If the claim has been leveled in, say, a national newspaper or magazine (that we can verify) then cite it as such and it can stay. If it's a personal gripe, then it has no place here. If you're unsure of something, feel free to ask. --Bachrach44 13:08, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I have had personal experiences that back up such complaints. (I have also had wonderful experiences through NCSY) I do not, however, have any really credible sources that make such allegations. A quick google search turned up this post: http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v27/mj_v27i35.html#CJZ Ferret-aaron 19:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I, who wrote the offending section, do not personally have this gripe with NCSY. However, I am involved in fundraising for youth groups such as NCSY, and have both read and heard this criticism against the group many times. It is, at least to people who know of such matters, a common criticism against this otherwise good and pious organization. Most good pages on Wikipedia have such a section dealing with criticism. I believe this section should be re-added into this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.29.105.90 (talk • contribs)
There is no problem with including criticism of a group on their wiki page, the problem is verfiability. To quote from the first line of the verifiability policy: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. I'm afraid that if you cannot provide verifiable evidence, then it doesn't have a place in wikipedia. Anecdotal evidence and "it is a well known fact amongst my peers...." is simply not verifiable. --Bachrach44 03:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scandals

NCSY, much like their frequent partner in "kiruv," Aish HaTorah, is deleting all details they consider unflattering. Teh Baruch Lanner episode is critical to NCSY's history because of how they handled it for so long. Because we are dealing with a youth group that seeks conversion to Orthodox as its main goal, it is no surprise there is controversy in its history.

A controversy section is needed.

First of all to put kiruv in quotes is insulting from your list of changes you obviously have a grudge against people who are religious. Next one does not "convert" to orthodox, its just a different sect. Also....there is no need for a scandel section, its irrelevent Most importantly the posting about college just is plain false

What about a history of scandals within the program, i know of many. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.31.250 (talk • contribs)

  • Ok anonymous, then are you prepared to deal with WP:LIBEL? Who doesn't have scandals if you dig deep enough? IZAK 11:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'See also' group inclusion

  • There appears to be a question about inclusion of other denominational youth groups within the 'see also' section of this article. Within the American Jewish community, NCSY is perceived as a co-equal denominational youth group, as evidenced by major Jewish newspaper and major Jewish federation websites, which include NCSY listed among the others. See the link list below. In addition, the NCSY webspace itself illustrates that NCSY participates in activities with its coordinate groups.

Wikipedia viewers previously unfamiliar with NCSY who are visiting this page should be made aware of coordinate youth groups that exist in the other denominations -- this provides valuable contrast to and comparison with major American Jewish youth groups.

(Any discussions about other denominations, in general, should be directed to Talk:Jewish denominations.)

A quick sampling of links, as previously noted: [1][2][3] [4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]

Infoman99 22:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baruch Lanner controversy

Hi! I've protected this page for a few days because of an edit war that seems to have broken out over this controversy. For the time being, only administrators will be able to edit the page. In the meanwhile, I'd encourage taking a look at our biographies of living persons policy. This policy clarifies that any encyclopedia content containg potentially defamatatory material on living persons has to come from independent, well-established reliable sources such as reliable news services. Because this was a public controversy, sources should be available. I would encourage avoiding general statements and providing very specific facts -- who did what when, and who said so. Please discuss proposed content on this talk page before putting it on the article. And please have sources for all potentially defamatory material even to put it on the talk page. Wikipedia is very strict about preventing unreliable information that might be harmful to a living person from appearing even on a talk page. Best, --Shirahadasha 02:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I would recommend starting a Baruch Lanner article and having it vetted and established on the encyclopedia before attempting to add material on this controversy to this article. This would enable sourcing problems to be addressed directly, and then reliable information and points of view about NCSY's role could be added to this article. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:03, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:NCSYLOGO.gif

Image:NCSYLOGO.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:34, 2 January 2008 (UTC)