Talk:Napoleon Hill

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Contents

[edit] De-coding Think and Grow Rich

I bought my first copy of Think and Grow Rich when I was 14 years old. There has never been a day in my life I did not own a copy of this book. I have studied this book the way some people study their Bible. By the time I was eighteen, I still had not yet discovered what Hill called, "the biggest secret buried with-in the pages of the book". I decided my mission, on that day of my life, was to de-code the book. I took a pencil and the book and sat at the dining room table. My attitude and approach was, "I don't care how high your IQ is, I don't care how many college degrees you have hanging on the wall, I don't care how much money you have at your disposal and I don't care who you know in high place that will take your in-bound calls. None of those things represent any type of an advantage in your life until...you first...take some form of ACTION. So, I began to look, word for word, for the ACTION words. If it was an ACTION word, I circled it. If it wasn't, I ignored it. When I completed this process, I went back to see if there was some type of pattern to the circled words. There was. Over and over again. In the same order. I had only circled some form of three different words: KNOW, PLAN and ACT. My personal understanding of the book, Think and Grow Rich is, "If you desire (want) "good things" to happen to you, or for your benefit, you have to (1) KNOW exactly what it is you want. (2) PLAN precisely for it to happen. (3) ACT faithfully on your plans. (Summary) When you have made adequate preperation for a thing to happen, you can't stop it from happening. [Note] I have lived an incredibly satisfing life living by the principle taught by Napolean Hill. The word, "Rich" in the book's title is a little misleading. It's not all about money. "Rich" is having literally anything you desire in life. Also, if I could re-edit his book, I'd call the first chapter, "The Power of an Idea". Realize, everything mankind ever created, started off as nothing more than an "idea" in one person's mind. I have seen the world through Napolean Hill's eyes. I have lived a wonderful life. Outside of my own parents, no other individual has had such a profound positive effect on my life. Everything he writes about is totally duplicatable...by anyone, regardless of race, creed, color, sex, income, formal education, background or difficult circumstances...who takes the time to understand it. If you read his ideas, understand his ideas, apply them to your life, they will improve the quality of your life, for the rest of your life. Jim Vaughan, Venice, Florida

[edit] Master Mind section needs updates

The phrase "MASTER MIND" was actually used by Wallace D. Wattles in "The Science of Getting Rich" (1910), a book freely available online. I do not know if Wattles coined it, but there is no attribution that proves that Hill did. If Hill did coin the expression, he would have had to do it between 1908, when he started writing articles, and 1910; I find this incredibly unlikely. The Master Mind section needs to be substantially rewritten to cite Wattles' (and Hill's) precise use of the term, or it needs to be removed.

"... to think riches when in the midst of appearances of poverty, requires power; but he who acquires this power becomes a MASTER MIND. He can conquer fate; he can have what he wants." (Wattles, "The Science of Getting Rich")


- - -

Wattles and Hill are assigning different meanings to the phrase Master Mind; both are conceptually distinct from each other. 216.232.241.206 14:26, 19 May 2007 (UTC)Tyler Walton

[edit] Commercial content

This article needs a LOT of work before it comes close to any sort scholarly standards. Listing "the secret" as a content section and then using it as a teaser promotion for a independent video movie called "the Secret" is blatantly disrespectful of Wikipedia's guidelines. Unfortunately for topics with relevence to mystics and masons, or charletans and marketeers, these problems seem a recuring problem. I have hope however, when I see strong articles adhering to guidelines in other contentious articles prone to misinformation campaigns (like scientology for example).

I encourage anyone who is able to sheppard this article toward respectability to do so. As I think many of the ideas Mr Hill put forth in his works are worthy of study and practice.68.164.63.102 21:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


Re - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Hill section - The Success Formula

Is this article a joke? If it's for real then it is perhaps the silliest wikipedia short bio I've ever observed. The article is poorly written, especially "The Success Formula". It is worded as a sycophantic hagiography, a testimonial to the infallible wisdom of Napoleon Hill, with a magical fantasy become real, making all sorts of unsupportable allegations:

"Modern business schools do not teach the Carnegie/Hill formula"

leading CEO's and strategists in American Business today would find no knowledge of the "success formula"

What we do know about the formula is that it is a relativity equation,

combines some aspects of relativity with aspects of non-conforming mathematics, is belongs to a unique class of equations which have not been fully described yet

formula can equally be modeled not only mathematically but also psychologically, making it the first equation to describe the overall thought process of the human mind in a mathematical expression

A lack of knowledge of the success formula in formal education ... responsible for ... the relatively unsatisfactory performance of our major companies and institutions who do not believe the formula exists.

-discovery and re-application of the formula is considered to be one of the pressing issues facing United States business and government today

No one should go hating on Napolean Hill. When I began reading Think and Grow Rich, I thought it was nonsense too, but you have to look at matters squarely. I have a deep respect for Hill and Carnegie and, they proved the formula worked. Please keep this section intact for those of us who do agree with the Carnegie formula.

Agreed with the above. This article is full of unsupported assertions and contains little of any academic value.

Current version (as of Jan.20.2006) is somewhat interesting, but 99% redundant crap. It could be reverted to this: [1] In short...


THE SUCCESS FORMULA IS:


"Whatever you give will come back to you."


It needs no mathematical formulation: your new invention will bring you "riches" nearly equal to the new riches it lets your market produce. (ie. If your market will increase their productivity from $1m to $1.5m /year by using your product, you will theoretically also gain a big chunk of that $.5m /year by selling it to them.)

It is about creating wealth by giving/selling knowledge/tools. No wonder Andrew Carnegie thought that the best way to use his money to benefit mankind was to leverage education and facilitate the production of knowledge. (He founded thousands of libraries, some universities and science institutes.) --Paperweight 06:17, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Success Formula

YOU HAVE TO TAKE THIS OUT! IF YOU HAVE READ THINK AND GROW RICH YOU WOULD KNOW VERY WELL THAT JUST GIVING AWAY THE SUCCESS FORMULA WOULD MAKE HILL ROLL OVER IN HIS GRAVE, YOU HAVE TO EARN THAT FORMULA.

[edit] Request

What exactally did Napoleon Hill do for FDR.

[edit] What he did

According to Hill's official biographer (Michael J. Ritt, "A Lifetime of Riches"), Hill was introduced to Roosevelt at the White House by U. S. Senator Jennings Randolph of West Virginia. Randolph had been a huge fan and supporter of Hill since the day he heard Hill deliver an electrifying and inspirational commencement address his senior year at Salem College in Virginia. Hill, as he had done for a time with Woodrow Wilson, served as an unpaid, very behind-the-scenes public relations adviser to FDR. He developed plans to shape public opinion, offered ideas for Roosevelt’s fireside chats, and there is some suggestion he may have been responsible for Roosevelt’s use of the phrase “the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself” in his inaugural address. White House visitor logs in those days were not what they are today, and many people came and went rather freely. This was apparently the case with Hill, who met with Roosevelt on numerous occasions. Hill met or corresponded with several U. S. Presidents. [In "Think and Grow Rich:! The Original Version, Restored and Revised" (ISBN 1593302002), see pages 4, 284, 290, 315 (endnote 5), and 329 (endnote 7)]. Hill's relationship with Roosevelt was widely and publicly discussed by Hill and others through the years. Randolph died in 1998; Hill, in 1970. Randolph also served for several years as a member of the Board of Trustees of the Napoleon Hill Foundation. It is inconceivable that he would not have found some way to set the record straight had there been any doubt about the validity of Hill's relationship with FDR.

  • As an alumnus I just felt it should be noted that Salem College is actually in West Virginia, not Virginia. 加持 (talk) 17:20, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Authenticity of data

How accurate (or authentic) are the data available in the articles of my beloved WIKIPEDIA? For instance, today when I browsed this article about Napoleon Hill – the German version (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Hill) as well as the English version (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_Hill). The German version stated that the number of copies of “Think and Grow Rich” sold between 1937 and 2004 was 7 million. However, the English version implied this as 30 million. I continued to make a small test further, by editing the latter web page. My editing of this figure to 31 million was accepted by the web page without any complaints. Again, when I reverted this to 30 million, the web page was equally happy.

Present arrangement of publishing the IP address of an editor is grossly insufficient.

Let me start by saying I am a great fan of Hill, Stone, Mandino and others and apply the directions mentioned in their works. However, one must keep in mind that Hill was effectively broke most of his adult life. Hill taught to Think and Grow Rich. He did not apply much of the knowledege properly. He had many failed business ventures, and was rescued in the later porton of his working life by W. Clement Stone, who gave him a position as a sales trainer for his Combined Insurance Company (now part of AON). Stone took what Hill did and created a system from it. Hill had thought, but no system of implementation. Don't get me wrong, Hill was brilliant, but it's easier to dispense advice than to use it. Without Stone, he would have in all probability, died broke.

[edit] Think and Grow Rich

Shut the F@#K UP all you ignorant fools! If you can't see or understand the secret, then that's your stupid problem.

No, it's the fault of the book Think and Grow Rich, which talks at great length about what a great secret it holds, but never actually discusses what the secret is.
I could write a book about what a great secret I have, as long as I don't have to reveal it. Means nothing unless/until you actually show the goods.
Septegram 18:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyways, the book is there and there ain't nothing you can do. So piss off.

It is one of the best self-help book that I've read and it has changed my perspective and even my life for the better.

  • KSJ

I have read "Think And Grow Rich", all four volumes of "The Law Of Success", "A Year Of Growing Rich", and "Positive Action Plan". I have what I believe to be a keen sense of logic and have, thus far, been moderately succesful. I have no reason to doubt any word, concept or idea that Hill ever presented in his work. I hold his philosophy to be a sound one, worthy of my acceptance. I have read the biographies of Lance Armstrong and Chris Ledoux, both very succesful men in their own unique ways. I have found their lives to support Hill's message fully. I have found striking similarities in the books of Robert Kyosaki, author of "Rich Dad - Poor Dad", among several books about financial success. Zig Ziglar, author of "See You At The Top" shares very similar ideas about sales and success. To understand Napoleon Hill's secret is to experience emotional and spiritual growth to the point that you can comprehend it, you must have endured enough pain in your life, constructive pain. I have found parallels between the message of Hill and: The Buddha, Kiung Tsu (Confucius), Protagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Christ, Immanual Kant, Soren Kierkegaard, and Victor Frankl. Anthony Robbins, perhaps viewed as a "pseudo-psychologist" (but only by those who havent studied his program) nearly mirrors Hill's work, and it's credible. Would he not be so successful if it wasn't? In my studies, both theoretically, and empirically, I have come to trust Hill's "secret". However, it's not much of a secret at all, it's just what we call wisdom, something that is unfortunately progressively becoming quite scarce. The decisions to be pessimestic about the Napoleon Hill entry were in fact decisions, just as my decision to study his work and to become better prapared to have a VALID opinion of it. I just can't help but ask if any of them know anything more about Hill, or Carnegie than the short, entry that was posted here on Wilkipedia. I doubt that any of those who made negative entries have large banks accounts, because if they did, they would likely know a bit more about the "Secret". J.C.C.

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to share the "secret" that Mr. Hill neglects to share in his book?
Septegram 18:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Here you go:

      Neuro Associative Conditioning.  Do you consciously monitor your thoughts?  What Hill calls "Autosuggestion" is a very powerful thing, it's everything!  First, consider your "Social Heredity" also a term coined by Hill that means the way you experience your reality, in other words, your biases, what you consider to be moral or immoral, or what is of value to you, or perhaps what you consider to be of personal gain.  For example, an anorexic believes food will harm them, a bodybuilder doesnt want to go without food for more than three or four hours.  Clearly they have opposing "autosuggestion" when food is the subject at hand.  But what most people don't do is monitor the fact that they have these fleeting thoughts that control their emotions, their decisions, their happiness, and their SUCCESS.  Every time you are confronted with a situation, there is a quick occurence in your mind, and you have trained your mind to act however it happens to act.  The things you relate to pleasure and pain is what determines this mental outcome.  The SECRET here is that although most people have ideal ideas, the thoughts that construct their existence are self destructive.  On the simplest, and most fundamental level, one must learn to monitor thier thoughts to be sure they are directing their life where their ultimate goals want them to end up.  A good book on the matter is called "Neural Path Therapy" by Matthew McKay and David Harp.  Robert Kyosaki also talks about it in the first chapter of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" when he states the the reason poor people are poor is because their fear of losing when investing is greater than their desire to succeed.  That fear of losing thought is usually what happens just before someone chooses not to make that phone call, or to initiate the investment process.  What Hill does in "Think And Grow Rich" is "show" you the secret instead of "tell" you.  Hill doesn't neglect to share his secret, in fact that's all the book is about.  The first step toward understanding the secret is to begin to monitor your autosuggestion.  Oh, and also actually read his books.

J.C.C.

______________________________________________________________

Thanks wikpedia for a very good article on Napoleon Hill. I have been a fan of Napoleon Hill for many years, and own many books and tapes by him.

In reading the comments, it is interesting that so many people who know very little of Napoleon Hill have so many negative things to say.

Napoleon was born into poverty, and through his association with Andrew Carnegie managed to help thousands of others become successful. This was his calling, and it made him sucessful too. If you read and understand the story, Napoleon worked for twenty years for the richest man in the world without compensation. He also worked for FDR as an unpaid advisor. The Think and Grow Rich manuscript was written during the time that he served FDR in the White House.

If Napoleon Hill had wanted riches to the degree that Andrew Carnegie and others did, he would have achieved them. When Andrew Carnegie challenged Napoleon to go to work for him for twenty years, Andrew Carnegie did not live to see the results. Carnegie died in 1919, and Napoleon worked on, and finally published his work in 1928, called "The Law of Success."

Men of lesser integrity could have used this close association of great people and millionaires to better "ine their own nests." Hill did not, he kept on working interviewing 504 men and distilling their knowledge of success into a formula for the common man. This formula has helped to create this country. He did exactly as Carnegie wanted, and we are better for it.

There is no way to measure the full impact of Hill's work. Many read and achieve what they want, but it would never get reported to the author.

Napoleon Hill is one of the greatest Americans who yield a tremendous impact during his lifetime. And he will continue to have an impact on people who are "not yet born."

FJL


Napoleon Hill's work and the commentary about it are biography and social history, not science.

Andilinks 01:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism not Surprising

I suppose it is not surprising that a few (ahem) uninformed contributors to this discussion page would post criticism of not only the entry listing, but also of Napoleon Hill himself. (And as an aside: please, can we dispense of phrases like "...my beloved Wikipedia..."? If you want factual information that has the weight of a respected publication and an editorial review board, please consult the Encyclopedia Britannica.)

I had to chuckle after reading what the last poster to this discussion 'blog wrote: that this is not "science" but rather "social history." I don't think anyone is claiming that it is, in fact, "science" in the strictest sense of the definition. The "formula" is a phrase developed by Andrew Carnegie and retold by Napoleon Hill in his book Think and Grow Rich was a figure of speech. More precisely, it was a behavior pattern Carnegie not only practiced himself, but also one he observed to be practiced by some of the most successful men of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. If Hill chose to refer to it as a "formula," I'd say he was well within his literary rights (the shrill protesting of semantics by the gentleperson at the top of this page not withstanding).

I read Hill many years ago, and although I was skeptical at first, I have personally found that the "formula" -- when put into practice -- actually works. Hill and his writings has done more for me, personally, than any of the formal education I have received (and believe me, gentle reader, when I tell you said education is among the finest to be had).

The Hill entry itself -- while a bit awkward in places -- is factual; therefore, it should be kept intact with minor edits.

[edit] The Secret

It is a popular tactic to suggest a "secret" and then never quite say what the "secret is. A new and popular online movie "The Secret" does the same thing. I have read Napoleon Hill's books and his biography and heard his tapes for over 20 years. As a lawyer, I am a skeptic first and a willing supporter only after being convinced of the message. I think the posters are accurate who call out Hill's failure to follow his own teachings and failure to realize the monstrous success that others have experienced who give credit to Hill. On the other hand, the "Secret" is so obvious:

1. Whatever you conceive and believe you can achieve.

2. There is a process to that achievement which requires an underlying desire, persistence and focus.

If you want to say that this is not a "secret," that is fine, but how many people actually apply these principles to their lives. I say it is obvious but one heck of a secret in the general public.

I am sorry that many of you need to flame posters who are trying their best to create a fantastic wiki. I have my flame retardant suit on as I write this. Good luck to all of you.

[edit] Validity and Credibility

Didn't Hill die in poverty?


To all who doubt or question the validity of Napoleon Hill's masterpiece or the research that led to it, I invite you to visit the following web page and read the testimonials you will find there:

http://tgr-restored-revised.com/testimonials.htm

You may be surprised to see some of the names that are listed, as well as the vast array of occupations and walks of life they represent. Incidentally, while it is true that Napoleon Hill failed at more business ventures than you can count, he died an extremely wealthy man thanks to worldwide sales of "Think and Grow Rich!" and the other "success" materials he wrote and produced. When he writes about determination and persistence in the face of defeat, he knew exactly what he was talking about. W. Clement Stone did not "rescue" Hill in the latter part of Hill's career. He worshipped Hill, credited the latter's ideas for Stone's great success, and he wished to collaborate with Hill in developing new "personal success" programs and learning materials -- "Success Magazine," to name only one. Stone and Hill met, if I recall correctly, when they both had speaking engagements at a luncheon in Chicago. Stone went up to Hill, was introduced to him, and said he wanted to shake Hill's hand and that he wanted to meet the man who wrote "Think and Grow Rich," which had affected his life and business tremendously. Their collaboration lasted for more than a decade prior to Hill's retirement, which he spent in the upstate town of Greenville, S. C. (His wife, Annie Lou, was a South Carolina native. They are buried in Frederick Memorial Gardens near Gaffney, S. C., a mile and a half off Interstate 85

Response: Who should we expect to see writing testimonials? The problem with this, and all such 'self help' books is that chance alone will guarantee a proportion of readers who are (financially) successful and are likely, therefore, to attribute their success to the book. They are disposed to have a very positive attitude to the work and its author. In addition, there will be a proportion of people who, while not financially successful, have comfortable and moderately happy lives, and who are prepared to attribute this level of 'success' to reading the book. Understandably, testimonials will tend to come from these happy few, whether the book really had anything to do with it or not. They must be set against the large numbers of people who read the book, applied the 'principles', and did not achieve the level of success that they might have expected. There number remains uncounted; their testimonials are absent. There is a further uncounted set of people who never read the book and yet achieved success. Considering that the book is referred to as a phenomenal bestseller, one might reasonably expect the apparent 'success' rate to be significantly higher than chance alone. Now, is it? --kscally 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hill's Secret

Neuro Associative Conditioning. Do you consciously monitor your thoughts? What Hill calls "Autosuggestion" is a very powerful thing, it's everything! First, consider your "Social Heredity" also a term coined by Hill that means the way you experience your reality, in other words, your biases, what you consider to be moral or immoral, or what is of value to you, or perhaps what you consider to be of personal gain. For example, an anorexic believes food will harm them, a bodybuilder doesnt want to go without food for more than three or four hours. Clearly they have opposing "autosuggestion" when food is the subject at hand. But what most people don't do is monitor the fact that they have these fleeting thoughts that control their emotions, their decisions, their happiness, and their SUCCESS. Every time you are confronted with a situation, there is a quick occurence in your mind, and you have trained your mind to act however it happens to act. The things you relate to pleasure and pain is what determines this mental outcome. The SECRET here is that although most people have ideal ideas, the thoughts that construct their existence are self destructive. On the simplest, and most fundamental level, one must learn to monitor thier thoughts to be sure they are directing their life where their ultimate goals want them to end up. A good book on the matter is called "Neural Path Therapy" by Matthew McKay and David Harp. Robert Kyosaki also talks about it in the first chapter of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" when he states the the reason poor people are poor is because their fear of losing when investing is greater than their desire to succeed. That fear of losing thought is usually what happens just before someone chooses not to make that phone call, or to initiate the investment process. What Hill does in "Think And Grow Rich" is "show" you the secret instead of "tell" you. Hill doesn't neglect to share his secret, in fact that's all the book is about. The first step toward understanding the secret is to begin to monitor your autosuggestion. Oh, and also actually read his books. J.C.C.


[edit] Carnegie's Secret

Just Think and Grow Rich —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.30.19 (talk) 19:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Documentation of Hill's interview claims

With all respect to his product, has anyone ever verified Hill's claim that he interviewed 500 businessmen?


Many notable persons such as the late W. Clement Stone (founder of one of the nation's largest insurance conglomerates), Michael Ritt (Hill's official biographer and long-time business associate), and the late U. S. Sen. William Jennings Randolph (long-time Hill friend and associate) have all, in one fashion or another, verified Hill's claim. He interviewed many of these 500-plus successful people in person (Edison, Ford, for example) and many by formal, lengthy questionnaires which they obligingly filled out. Andrew Carnegie opened the door for Hill into many of these individuals' thoughts and lives by way of Carnegie's personal contacts and letters of introduction. Johnlocke2 (talk) 17:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Was Hill Rich?

I bet that bugger died a poor man. 209.29.89.185 05:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Hill died quite wealthy -- wealthy enough, in fact, to lead a comfortable life of retirement and to leave a sizable fortune to found a not-for-profit foundation that bears his name. Johnlocke2 (talk) 17:27, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who is editing this page

Changes that were made to this page have been reverted. This is a violation of Wikipedia's editorial policy, and will result in no more contributions being made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.97.18 (talk) 01:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

This article is in flagrant violation of WP:V. Material that is not cited to a source is unverifiable, and may be challenged and deleted, per wikipedia policy. Please do not make contributions without citing them to reliable sources. HrafnTalkStalk 03:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I see. You want the "verified" secret of "how to" think and grow rich. Well, it is staring right in front of you,
which means as one of the "editors" surely now you can properly write this biography page. Otherwise, leave the page
alone. Best regards.
No, I want verifiable facts about Napoleon Hill's life, but this article doesn't provide any. As such, the article will most likely continue to shrink (per compliance with WP:V) until either (1) somebody bothers to come up with some WP:RSs on the subject; or (2) the article is reduced to a stub on which a verifiable article can later be built. If you want an article on "think and grow rich", then by all means find WP:RSs on that topic to pass WP:NOTE & WP:V & then create an article on it. HrafnTalkStalk 16:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)