Talk:Names of Burma

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Contents 1 Birmania 2 Adjective or possessive 3 A fascinating article 4 Burmese python 5 how do you say... 緬甸? 6 Philadelphia versus Philly 7 Original research

[edit] Birmania

What about Birmania?

Thanks for this very educational article. It doesn't alter my view that the English name of the country is and should remain Burma (just as the English name for Deutschland is Germany), at least until such time as a democratically elected Burmese government requests otherwise. Accordingly, Wikipedia's articles should be at Burma. Adam 13:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adjective or possessive

May I point out that the creaky "a" is the possessive as in Burma's sovereignty and the short tone "a" does not actually change for the adjective as in Burmese society? Wagaung 20:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason why most Burmese are "unaware of these subtleties" for the correct usage between "Myanmar" and "Myanma" is that most Burmese speakers treat "Myanma" as possessive and "Myanmar" as an adjective in their own language. The current grammatical usage of these terms in English as promulgated by the Burmese government is inconsistent with that in Burmese.

1. While "Myanma" (without the "r") can be construed (or argued) as an adjective in certain cases, its dominant use is as a possessive.

2. In Burmese, "Myanmar" is an adjective--not a noun. "Myanmar" is always used in front of a noun as a modifier to that noun: e.g., "Myanmar Lu-Myo" (the Burmese race/ethnicity), "Myanmar Naing-ngan" (the Burmese state), etc. As a native speaker, I can't think of an instance where "Myanmar" is used as a standalone noun. Whenever "Myanmar" is used by itself, the speaker assumes that the listener knows what the implicit follow-up noun is.

So the usage "Myanmar Language Commission" should be correct in English. But it's not. The problem is that by calling the country "The Union of Myanmar", the Burmese government is (incorrectly) using "Myanmar" as a noun in English. It should have been called "Myanmar Union" a la the Soviet Union or the Czech Republic. If they want to stick to "the Union of Myanmar", then we need an equivalent demonym of Burmese for Myanmar such as Myanmarese or Myanmese. Hybernator 23:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)Hybernator

[edit] A fascinating article

Some will complain about the argumentative tone ("as was shown above"). I don't; but those sections may be more appropriate to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Burma/Myanmar). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:31, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burmese python

Perhaps some mention could be made of the use of the adjectival forms in such cases as the python. I don't know how other languages deal/dealt with the issue, but clearly in English there's no one who ever says "Myanmarese python". --Dante Alighieri | Talk 21:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] how do you say... 緬甸?

this is English Wikipedia so we need a transliteration of the word: 緬甸 Arthurian Legend (talk) 22:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Philadelphia versus Philly

For the distinction between Myanma and Bama, might it help the exposition to give examples in English where the formal and colloquial names for a place differ? I can think of Philadelphia (Pennsylvania, USA) versus its colloquial name Philly, but perhaps there is another example that better mimics the similarities between Myanma and Bama. Quantling (talk) 16:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure where the formal and colloquial names statement comes from. Historically, Bama (or rather, Bamah) has been the name used in India to refer to the ethnic group known as Myanma in Burma itself. Historically, Burma has had a Myanma core centered around the Irrawaddy valley (after the defeat of the Mons) but has had empires that were more far flung and included the non-Myanma Tenassarim regions, the Arakan, and, to a lesser extent of domination, the hill states of the Shans and the Kachins and many other ethnic groups. Thus, until the war of 1824-1826 when Western parts of Burma were lost to the British, there was no strong ethnic identification with the center (even though the center was almost entirely Myanma). After the west was lost, the state was essentially reduced to its ethnic core area of the valley (the hill states were almost always tributary states rather than integrated and directly administered from Ava or Mandalay), and, possibly because the Ava kings perceived the significance of the threat they faced from the British kalas, a stronger ethnic identification with the state developed. Somewhere around 1850, possibly during the rule of Mingdon Min, the state began to call itself the land of the Myanmar.

Historically it has been the non-Myanmar who have called the people Bama or Bamar (this include the many ethnic groups that comprise modern Burma today). Thus formal and colloquial should actually read non-Myanma and Myanma. The reason why the name is hotly debated inside Burma is because it excludes all other ethnicities. Unfortunately, what was practical in a Myanma only Ava kingdom of the mid 19th century, is now imposed on the entire country at the cost of excluding the many diverse ethnic groups that live inside the boundaries of Burma. --Regents Park (Chase my ducks) 01:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original research

This article is plagued by original research concerning the usage and backing of the various names of Burma. I want to point out that citing a publication by an organisation which makes use of one name or the other is an example of synthesis of published material serving to advance a position. Unless the work includes commentary on its choice of usage of name for Burma, the usage therein doesn't assume encyclopedic significance.

Fortunately it seems that plenty of reliable sources discussing the choice of name do exist, so I'll have a go at incorporating these. BigBlueFish (talk) 18:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Mostly done. Hope that helps. BigBlueFish (talk) 20:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)