Talk:Muammar al-Gaddafi/Archive 1

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WHy is this article so pro-Gadhafi? At least include some reasons for his controversial image and something about his CIA files (see: VEIL by Bob Woodward). Also write somethigna bout his hating political opponents and things of the similar.--Unsigned edit by 69.208.158.244 20:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Please remember to use four tildes to sign your name on the discussion forum. I think the last section of this article does seem NPOV, any suggestions for possible revision? (SeanMcG 05:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC))

I haven't scoured the Gaddafi info completely, but I'm not seeing any reference to his change of heart (vis-a-vis the world community and his militant opposition to the West) being influenced by the attentions of his son. My understanding was that Mr. G. was well on his way to rejoining the world community long before George W. even got into the White House, prompted to apologize for the Lockerbee crash, and prompted to gain raprochement with Europe by a son who wanted his country to be respected again. George W. and his silly adventures, post 9/11, were incidental to Gaddafi's change of heart, far from the cause. I'm sorry, I can't cite chapter and verse now, but this is what was being written long before we got into Iraq.


WHy does this article praise gadafi? why doesnt it tell of the people he killed trying to get and stay where he is? he is a ruddy bastard.

Agreed, please visit www.stopgaddafi.org <- another link this site has taken down a few times.


Hmmm, is there any truth to the rumor that G's infant son was killed in an air raid?

  • Remember April 15 1986 from his official site says of the US air raid "The aim of the strike was to kill him. Instead, his daughter was killed...some would call it murder." There is a photograph. --Dhartung 06:06, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

That is bogus as well, and it was alleged that it was his adopted daughter. The word in Libya is that he made up the story to gain some kind of sympathy.

---

Because the name is properly written in Arabic there are a number of alternatives using the Roman alphabet. The BBC prefers Gaddafi, ABC News prefers Ghadafi.

A search on Google shows, 25,400 hits for Gaddafi, 9020 for Ghadafi and 7,740 for Qadhafi. I think that Qadhafi should be moved. The following site http://www.mcsweeneys.net/links/lists/ortho1.html lists distribution found on Google at some point in the past, but I think he must have got the first two entries reversed.

Don't forget Khadaffi, Kadaffi, etc.

Not forgoteen, see above website.

Could we at least decide on one spelling for the article? Danny

Eh, I just did a search, got 68,000 hits for Gaddafi and 35,000 for Gadhafi (not Ghadafi, as you did). ugen64 00:07, Dec 25, 2003 (UTC)

In reviewing this Wikipedia article, I have noticed that it is almost an exact match to a copyrighted bio of MQ posted on the ABC news site. Did ABC get it from here, or vice versa? Does this issue need to be addressed? Please view the text in question at Gadhafi Bio by ABC -- polaris999

He (or a son of him) is a heavy investor in Italy, including a top soccer team which I don't remember (Parma?). He even managed to get the final match of the Italian championship played at Tripoli. Please research this. -- Error

His son al-Saadi has just been signed by Serie A side Perugia. Also, in 2002 the Libyan Arab Foreign Investment Company (Lafico) bought about 8% of the shares in Serie A champions Juventus. I would like to add information about this, and other recent events, but hesitate to do so because of concern about the matter re ABC news which I have explained above. Am wondering whether we should continue to work on the Qadhafi article as it currently exists via correcting more of the errors it contains and adding recent news, or plan to do a major re-write ...
Would appreciate very much your thoughts on this -- polaris999

I did the initial creation of this article way back when, and unfortunately my memory is somewhat vague - I seem to recall copying significant chunks of it from a US government page, which would make it public domain. But unfortunately I was an idiot and I didn't explicitly mention the source in the summary field, and I can't seem to find it now, so I can't trust that memory. Since this potential problem appears to be primarily my fault, how about I take an hour or two when I get home tonight to completely rewrite the article, preserving all the information but putting it into a brand new form? That should distill out any copyright that may be present on the current text. I don't have time to do it right now, but if there's new information you want to insert just make a note here and I'll integrate it all when I do my rewrite. Bryan

That sounds great to me! The only major addition I would suggest would be a review of his recent involvement in promoting African Unity, i.e. encouraging establishment of a United States of Africa, trying to negotiate peace agreements between/among the warring factions in many African countries, etc. It might also be interesting to mention his swift denunciation of the 9-11 attack (first Arab leader to make such a statement, I believe) and his expressions of sympathy to the American people.
Polaris999 23:20 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Eep! I've managed to put this rewrite off for a full month now. Turns out it's a bit more than a few hours' work, it's hard an annoying trying to rewrite this much text to say the same thing without being the same thing. :) Back on it now, though, in case anyone thought I'd forgotten. Bryan

We should move this to "Moammar El-Gadhafi", since that's apperently his perfered spelling; see [1]. - Efghij 05:40, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

That may, or may not, be his preferred transliteration. Since the latest official Press Release distributed by Libya's UN Mission transliterates his name as "Muammar El-Qaddafi", perhaps one could conclude that this is his preferred version? I would hazard a guess, however, that he is only concerned about the correct spelling of his name in Arabic. Therefore, I don't think that it matters which variant we use as the title of the wiki article, so long as the most common spellings are all cross-linked to it.
Polaris999 01:03, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Let's just keep it where it is forever. If someone tries to move the article, there will be a large amount of defective redirects. WhisperToMe 00:01, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That can easily be fixed. --Jiang

His website uses "Muammar Gadafi". --Jiang

Hmm, and all along I though he was a bad guy. This article has certainly disabused me of that notion. Kent Wang 19:20, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Move page

This page should be moved to Muammar al-Qaddafi, which is what the whole article uses. An admin will have to do this. --Cantus 00:31, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

OMG that was quick! Thanks Hephaestos! --Cantus 00:34, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Edit War

Dear lord. VV, if you're going to get into a massive revert war, you ought to have some written justification of it beyond "reverting misinfo". Why are 172's additions misinformation? I've protected on 172's version. john 05:45, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

See my comments on Wikipedia talk:Quickpolls. (a) The new text is slanted (e.g., merely having a "stance" on Palestinian independence, like, say, I don't know, Saudi Arabia?). (b) It repeats the unproven assertion that Qaddafi's daughter was killed. (An adopted daughter may or may not have been killed.) -- VV 06:20, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

There's substantial evidence that Mossad placed a transmitter in Libya to convince the US that the Libyans were responsible for the German bombing, resulting in the US raids. This should be reflected in the article.

Colourful Muammar

I think this article needs some reference to his extravagant, colourful lifestyle and appearance. His wardrobe comes to mind, his blue clad female bodyguards, the bedouin tent he had set up in Brussels, etc. He is also said to write poetry. The guy may be a dictator but he's an interesting, multi faceted person nonetheless.

that's nothing. he absolutely killed at this year's Arab League conference.

>>The only color I'd like to see is the gray matter of his brains splattered against a wall.

Anything on the Bulgarian nurses?

For several years, the Libyan government has held a handful of Bulgarian nurses under the charge that they deliberately spread the AIDS virus amongst patients at a children's hospital in Benghazi. Last May, a Libyan court convicted them to death by firing squad on the basis of evidence that was derived through torture-induced confessions. A new trial is in progress, but the case could last for years. It is speculated that Libya is doing this to force Bulgaria to give them money or to have Sofia excuse Tripoli's debts.

Anyway, the nurses are innocent. An AIDS expert looked into this case and linked the outbreak to the poor sanitation in the hospitals that facilitated dangerous transfusions. Based on information regarding incubation period, the expert also noted that the children were infected BEFORE the nurses arrived.

Why is there no discussion on this?? posted by 129.170.246.74

  • Because nobody has created such an article yet. I think this is a good idea, but it belongs at Foreign relations of Libya or in its own separate article. --Dhartung | Talk 06:59, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Note: I found the article at Trial against the Bulgarian medics and a Palestinian doctor in Libya, which was several months out of date. I also made sure it was cross-linked from here and the Foreign relations of articles for both countries. I'll also see about getting it into the current events listing. --Dhartung | Talk 08:08, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • Then why aren't the articles linked?? posted by 129.170.247.235
        • Please sign your edits to Talk pages. I see no need to link that article here, because there is no direct connection to Qaddafi that I know of. Not everything that happens in Libya belongs in the article on the national leader, just as not everything that happens in the US belongs in the article on George W. Bush. I did link to that article from multiple locations where it is relevant and encyclopedic, and I put it on the Current Events page as well. --Dhartung | Talk 20:47, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That is also a very poor title for an article, and it should be renamed. Adam 03:51, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Is Qaddafi really a Colonel?

I have always wondered if the english translation of Qaddafi's rank is an accurate one. We always hear of "Colonel Qaddafi" but is he really a Colonel? Upon taking over the country, did he promote himself to General? Of assume some other title that the western world simply translates as his former Army rank. I took a close look at this uniform in a recent picture and I can't tell if hes wearing a Libyan Colonel insignia or sme modification of it. And, if he is still a Colonel, is he commander-in-chief of the armed forces? That would make him a higher rank than a General, actually. I also see that Qaddafi wears various ribbons and medals, I wonder what these are for? As a dictator, he could have given himself every award of the Libyan military much like you see some South American dictators with every imaginable military badge and decoration. In any event, this would be interesting to address in the article. What does everyone think? -Husnock 09:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

To answer your questions, from all evidence Qaddafi was a Colonel in the Libyan army Signal Corps (i.e. military intelligence) when the coup took place, and he has eschewed any promotion in rank as well as any official title, preferring to rule through an arguably nominal Revolutionary Command Council. Technically I think the answer is that the Council is, collectively, commander-in-chief. If anything, Qaddafi has stayed away from ostentations of the generalissimo variety; in keeping with his Arab Socialist principles, he prefers to think of himself as a man of the people, and often wears colorful Arab robes rather than the military uniform. --Dhartung | Talk 6 July 2005 06:19 (UTC)

Letter to Minnesota School Girl

*In 1986, responding to a Minnesota schoolgirl's letter in English, he used the spelling Moammar El-Gadhafi. According to his personal website, he prefers the spelling Muammar Gadafi, although the domain name gives yet another version, al-Gathafi. Can someone point me to where I can find a copy of this letter? It seems to be addressed to a second grader at the Maxfield Magnet School. Printed source, Website, anything. Right now, it's a urban myth he even wrote it, perpetuated by a lot of internet sites. If there is not a printed source or at least a copy of this letter's contents, I think my removal of this myth is warranted.--Muchosucko 5 July 2005 15:00 (UTC)

Where did you get the idea this was an urban myth? I remember when this happened and it received commentary in places like -- I'm pretty sure -- TIME magazine; perhaps a Lexis-Nexis search will turn it up. If you really feel like confirmation from a source, try the school itself [2].
Many small things like this that happened before the web aren't well documented on it, as I'm sure you're aware.
(And where did you get the idea that Cecil Adams "perpetuates" myths? I'm sure he ain't 100% reliable on every point, and he rarely cites all his sources, but that certainly isn't his bag.) --Dhartung | Talk 5 July 2005 15:53 (UTC)
Thanks for replying. Well, you were right, Lexis Nexis pulled up good stuff. --Muchosucko 6 July 2005 03:07 (UTC)

Off-topic, about his looks

Does al-Qaddafi remind you guys of Dr. Frank N. Furter of the The Rocky Horror Picture Show and the The Rocky Horror Show? --fpo 01:20, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Why is Gaddafi so hated?

why is he so bad? What did he do? im doing an assignment and i cant get any info on what he did wrong...

pls help

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.162.248.75 (talk • contribs) .

He killed a lot of people, apparently mostly political dissenters; established some strict offical public codes of morals; and supported terrorism: he is believed to have ordered an early 1980's bombing at a night club (popular among American soldiers) in Berlin that killed Germans and Americans, and he has been implicated other terrorist activities mentioned in this article. Also, he curried favor with the Soviet Union (another not-so-nice goverment - but don't look to Wiki to find out why, the historical info isn't in that section either).


He did a lot more than just that. There is also no freedom of expression or opinion in the country. He floods the country with his bogus propaganda. You only know of the pan-am flight bombing, but he also destroyed a libyan aircraft going frmo benghazi to tripoli killing 157 people in 1992, and then claimed that it was due to the UN sanctions that he was unable to purchase the necessary equipment to maintain their airplanes. Which by the way is a bogus explanation, he killed those people. Also in 1996, the Abu Salim Prison massacre took place, where approximately 1700 political prisoners were killed. In the 1970's University students who opposed military draft were arrested, and many were hanged in public.

  • note* While it may seem that he had favored the Soviet Union; that is not entirely true, he hated them , and they didnt like him much either. He purchased weapons from them but as far as foreign policy goes, they werent friends.
  • note* Quote: "He floods the country with his bogus propaganda" How is this any different than American media? Is it different? I make no claims, but you should ask yourself those questions. Any person with average intelligence should examine these claims.

Quote:"...claimed that it was due to the UN sanctions that he was unable to purchase the necessary equipment to maintain their airplanes. Which by the way is a bogus explanation, he killed those people."

You should also ask yourself how do you know if the claim is true or false? I admit I am skeptical of the (Gaddafi) claim, but how can you claim he 'killed those people' You don't know that. You weren't there. How many "bogus explainations" have been readily accepted by the American public regarding everything from watergate to the so-called "terrorist attack" on Sept. 11, 2001? Can we say "Snowjob" ?

If Gaddafi "floods the country with his bogus propaganda" what makes you think that you are immune to "bogus propaganda" in your country?

I must ask myself "Why is the United States so hated?" It's not such a mystery to me anymore.

WAKE UP. SEE THE LIGHT.

From an American born citizen. I would rather be here than anywhere else but that doesn't mean I love my Government. I hate no one. I do not hate Gaddafi, I do not hate America or my Government. I just see them for what they are.71.193.253.74 09:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


User 71.193.253.74, so if you see them for what they are, what are they? Are you implying the information in this entry to be the truth? In regards to the question "Why is the United States so hated?", considering the governments and individuals in those countries may have past grievances with the United States, I'd say the United States has a lot of enemies. It just seems their escalation of violence towards individuals is radicalizing larges numbers of youth, and other states are simply taking advantage of the radicalized movement OR a majority of their citizens agree anyway. So if there are a group of people who are controlling the entire economy, it is those with wealth and power, especially in free market systems who are steering the direction of the nation. Their spending determines which businesses progress, as well as the people making these investment decisions. The United States just seems to have this specialization in military hardware, since their culture pretty much openly embraces weapons and arms to begin with. So they sell the stuff or give it away to people they feel are their allies, even if this is supported by only a slim majority. Really I think the only way to get a better understanding is to simply live there. --afxgrin (Generic Internet ID 1)

Copyvio maybe

  • There seem to be some material in this article coming from here, or the other way around, would somebody verify that? Lincher 17:37, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Coup d'état

As Maximusveritas correctly points out today in the Gaddafi article–in reverting an inappropriate edit–Saddam's overthrow by coalition forces in 2003 cannot be described as a coup.Phase1 16:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)