Talk:Movement for Socialism (Bolivia)

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[edit] Name

Is the (Bolivia) really needed in this article? Is there anything else called "Movement Toward Socialism?" --Descendall 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Support

  1. yes, there are MAS parties in Venezuela, Argentina, etc. However, I think it would be best to move all of them to "Movement for Socialism (x-country)". --Soman 11:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  2. I support this. I believe the British party Movement for Socialism's name was inspired by these groups. Warofdreams talk 12:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  3. Support. Rd232 talk 12:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

  1. No. The translation of "Movimiento al Socialismo" is not "Movement for Socialism" it is "Movement to Socialism" or "Movement toward Socialism". --Revolución (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
  2. No. "movement towards socialism" is a much more accurate translation--David Barba 22:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Yes there's a [1] Venezuelan Movement toward Socialism and an [2] Argentinian Movement toward Socialism. --Revolución (talk) 18:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

An exact translation doesn't really work here. There generic meaning of 'al' in this case denotes a wish to acheive socialism, not a physical motion towards it. Either 'Movement towards Socialism' and 'Movement toward Socialism' would have the same generic meaning as 'Movimiento hacía el Socialismo'. --Soman 19:32, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I think translating "al" as "toward" or "towards" implies a mistranslation of "movimiento" (as a physical movement, not a collective endeavour). However, this would seem to conflict with Wikipedia naming conventions, as the most common name in English appears to be ""Movement Towards Socialism" (note the s). "Movement for Socialism" is not unheard of - Agence France Presse and Xinhua seem to do this at least occasionally - but it's much less common. I stand by it as being more accurate though; Wikipedia shouldn't perpetuate errors just because they're common. Rd232 talk 12:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Result

Moved WhiteNight T | @ | C 05:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name

This should be changed to "Movement towards Socialism" if it's a direct translation from the Spanish "Movimiento al Socialismo". The Spanish "al" here has a directional meaning, a movement in some direction (here, ideological). Otherwise, it'd be "Movimiento para el Socialismo". Also, the party does not describe itself strictly as a "socialist" party, but as a movement headed in that direction. There is a difference.

[edit] Change on elections

I changed the entry, which listed the 2002 election as two types: legislative & presidential. While this is technically true, the entry (as it appeared) didn't make clear how the Bolivian electoral system works. Since the 1997 election, Bolivia uses a mixed-member electoral system. This means that voters cast a presidential ballot, as well as a ballot for their local congressional representative. But this second (legislative) vote only elects about half the lower house (it varied from 1997 to 2005); the remainder of the lower house and the entirety of the senate are elected from proportional representation formulas based on the presidential votes cast.

[edit] Name Change eminent

The english translation of the name clearly needs to be changed to "Movement towards Socialism". Whatever the "proper" grammatical translation should be, the most widely used english translation in academic journals and news media is "Movement towards Socialism". I think Wikipedia is the only major source that translates the name to "Movement for Socialism". Unless someone can cite numerous valid sources to the contrary, I will make the change in the coming week.--David Barba (talk) 19:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't say that there is an 'established' translation of the party name. The party is often internationally known simply as 'MAS'. --Soman (talk) 06:31, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Can you show me one established source that uses the translation "Movement for Socialism", and is not Wikipedia? The most common translations are "Movement Toward Socialism", "Movement Towards Socialism", or "Movement to Socialism". A working consensus has emerged. Please familiarize yourself with the topic before contesting.--David Barba (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
Some examples:

...try familiarize yourself with Google, --Soman (talk) 19:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

These are more recent BBC articles: [3] [4] And from the Economist: [5] Pexise (talk) 00:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think we can well conclude that there is no unison way in which the name is translated in English. We could argue further if what would be the more common way to translate it, but I'd say that measuring google-hits is not the best way forward. Its quite obvious that many journalists and blogger do a very direct translation of the name, which is misleading in terms of the generic meaning. The name 'Movement to Socialism', used in the Economist article, is an obvious grammatical error. --Soman (talk) 13:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)