Talk:Motörhead/Archive 1

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The following discussion is an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made here. No further edits should be made to this page.

Contents

Genre

Yes, I know they're not a heavy metal band, but they are percieved as such by a lot of people. There have been numerous discussions about this, but until some final conclusion is made, lets leave it at heavy metal. Roda 19:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Most people would classify them as heavy metal or speed metal. NOT rock and roll. It really doesn't matter what the band thinks - Slipknot can think they are metal, but that won't make them metal, right? Same thing goes for these guys. Musically it is so similar to speed/heavy metal, and unlike rock and roll (in it's speed and distorted-ness, etc.) So to whomever finds it necessary to change to genre to rock and roll, stop, or you will be reported for revert abuse.


i changed it back so that "rock" wasnt there i hope they dont revert it again--Valf 22:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


Yes, leave it as Metal. Just who are the gods who decree what is metal or not? For arguments sake, how come Motorhead appear on every "Metal" compilation ever produced (usually Ace Of Spades) and every documentary about Heavy Metal ever produced has an interview with Lemmy? I've always classed it as Heavy Metal, maybe out of convenience, because Hard Rock is so broad. I mean, it could be Slade ffs! As for Lemmy saying they are "just rock n' roll" - he probably learnt from an early age not to enter into any pointless arguments about genre which, at the end of the day, does not matter. 193.238.233.2 14:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Just thought it'd be good to mention that they are considered to be proto-thrash metal (as it is mentioned in the article on thrash metal). IMHO, classifying them as hard rock (as somebody did it) is at least strange, but I didn't remove it. 83.237.200.102 12:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Although I try to steer away from comments about Motorhead's genre (a whole supermarket of worm cans), it is interesting to note that I went into the loft the other day and retrieved a video from 1990 called Hard N' Heavy – it was a Thrash Metal Special and contained... guess who? Yes, Motorhead! Make of that what you will. Bubba hotep 12:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Who added "hard rock" to the genre? They aren't hard rock at all. For example, Guns'n'Roses are hard rock, Deep Purple are hard rock, "Load"-era Metallica are hard rock, and so on. But Motorhead's style is so different from these (especially in their speed, agression and above-mentioned "distorted-ness") that they are doubtlessly metal. Heavy metal, speed metal, whatever metal, but NOT hard rock.

One Bold Step: Moving this line to discussion page:

AC/DC referred to Motörhead as,"the only band louder than us".

It just doesn't seem like it belongs here. Not gonna just nix it, because certainly its verity holds a certain amount of weight, and should not be dismissed lightly. Would have posed this to the discussion page before removing it from the article, but since there was not yet a discussion page for this article I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that no one's going to give too much of a fuck. Discuss. - :)Ozzyslovechild 01:31, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've listened to AC/DC. These guys are a lot better. They have a type of GG Allin cocky-attitude crap lyric, mixed with a bit of judas priest and metallica. Mixed with some awesome guitar riffs. I'm glad I found this band. This is rock and roll. --Cyberman 07:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say they were better than the 'head, just different! When you talk about 70s and 80s 'metal', these two names are bound to come up. Basically, because they are legends. 193.238.233.2 15:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Most of Motorhead's songs greatly differ from what they usually call "heavy metal". I suggest adding "speed metal" and "thrash metal" to the genre list. Vast majority of their songs belong to speed metal (earlier ones) or proto-thrash metal (later ones), and they have a number of almost pure thrash songs as well. Some people consider them to be speed-thrash (like Metallica, with the difference that Metallica intentionally mixed thrash with speed metal, while Motorhead are a band playing speed metal which is close to thrash - but not thrash yet).

As those two bands are what LOUDNESS means in mainstream metal (if i may call them like that because of their popularity), I think it is a needed citation Sickboy3883 25 Oct 2006

It should be deleted

I think Motörhead doesn't need to be compared to AC/DC.

Compilations

* The Chase Is Better Than The Catch (2000; compilation)
* Over The Top - The Rarities (2000; compilation)
* All The Aces (2001; compilation)

These are not official compilations, so they can't be put in the official discography. - Roda, 17:02, July 13, 2005 (UTC).

Bootlegs and other non official works are usually included in the discographies. Although it should be made clear what they're official status is. - 81.179.72.27 17:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Blue letter day

With a small and fairly rubbish article on Pete Gill, the page now has no dead links. Alf 00:43, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Singles

  • In reply to my email asking about the status of copyright on lyrics, I received this reply from the webmaster of Motorhead's Official Site "All of the songs are copyrighted and there would be a problem reproducing them. However, we do provide them on the official site at www.imotorhead.com. Maybe you could just link to them?". I will attempt further personal communication later this year. Alf 10:19, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Grammarians - The titles of the albums, singles and EPs are 'as is', even if the English is wrong, that's what their titles are. Alf 18:27, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Template

I'm working on a template for the discography, I must admit, it's a bit garish and big, it's in my sandbox, if people would like to comment here, I'd be grateful. Thanks. Alf 11:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Template added, no longer in my sandbox, please comment anyway. Alf 14:53, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
I expanded the template by adding the former members. I hope you like it. Roda 19:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Yup that's fine by me, Rick Block gave his advice to keep it minimal and if you'd seen what I'd made, you'd agree! It's still nice and tidy. Rick did that one for free! Alf melmac 20:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I notice the template found it's way to Eddie, so I put it on Philthy as well - as they, with the man, are the classic line-up. I'm hesistant about putting on the other guys, although Wurzel is tempting me. POV check please. Alf melmac 20:46, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Nice article

I enjoyed this article - nice work.

Clean up of the History section

The main reason why I added the clean up template is because the section is really not written in a quality manner.For example: the bigger half of the section is about the "classic era" of the band (1976-1982). Second, Pete Gill is not even mentioned (Phil Taylor quits in 1983 in one sentence, but he is fired in 1992 in a following sentence). The trouble with record labels - for more than 10 years the band had trouble finding a "normal" label (1984 - 1994/5). For the reasons stated, I think this section should be completely rewritten and expanded. (In my opinion, the section should be modeled by the Metallica page) User:Roda 19 December, 2005 22:09 (UTC)

You're quite right, by comparison it needs a big re-write, I'm copying the section to a new sandbox, Phil did leave in 1983, he realised his mistake, rejoined the band and was fired in 1992. I'll make that clearer somehow. If anyone wants to help expand and play with it there for a bit, that would be good. Alf melmac 22:22, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
School is over by the end of the week, and since I'll have 3 weeks off, I'll try to write a completely new article. User:Roda 20 December, 2005 08:07 (UTC)

This is looking pretty good now ... at least to me. I suggest that the cleanup tag be removed, but will await views on this before doing so. One thing the "history" section could do with is a bit more structure, i.e. some sub-headings, etc., but that's not so much a cleanup issue. Metamagician3000 09:45, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Lineups

There is now a template for this, using Burridge's numbering. I've added it to the discography article and replaced the raw mark up in this article. It may also serve on other sub pages when they are written.--Alf melmac 15:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

2006 discussion

line numer 6 and number 8 are the same: Lemmy, Phil Campbell, Wurzel, and "Philthy Animal" Taylor.

yes that's how they are listed in the Collector's Guide to Motorhead (which was written by Alan Burridge, who also runs the Motorheadbangers, the official motorhead fan club), essentially the choice of Pete Gill in the interim didn't work out and they got Phil back. --Alf melmac 13:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
PS if we do change the line up numbers then we have to carefully follow the same for the line up references in the discography listings too. --Alf melmac 14:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
already did all of that

2007 discussion

lists Wallis and Clarke. Elsewhere we say that Wallis quit during Clarke's audition sessions. If the two of them never played on any records or concerts together they shouldn't be listed as a lineup imho. --kingboyk 16:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Lineup #4 says Kilmister, Clarke, Taylor. Bubba hotep 16:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Whoops, I meant #3 (I think :)). --kingboyk 17:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
All line up numbers were taken from Alan Burridge's The Illustrated Collector's Guide To Motörhead when I created the blue panel, if you wish, delete it and all refs to it if it's more problematic than good. It was always intended to go with the detailed Motorography I've been working on, that's getting harder and harder to complete though.--Alf melmac 17:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't want to delete it without being sure they didn't play any shows. I suspect the guide you used has them as a lineup because they played together in the audition sessions but that's a bit too "geeky" for a general interest encyclopedia I think :)...
Congrats on the work you've done here, the band are quite well documented on Wikipedia I think. --kingboyk 17:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
PS Just a thought, but maybe you should put a footnote in saying where the lineups list came from. Then, all queries are moot since you've relied on a published source :) --kingboyk 17:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

That line-up should be left in, because Eddie originally joined as a second guitarist. Roda 10:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Erlewine

Will people plllleeeeeeeeeeeease stop quoting bloody Allmusic because they're too idle to look up a reputable critic? No-one cares what Stephen "I hate music" Erlewine thinks.

Popularity

"The band's mainstream success has dwindled since the late 1980s"

I would like to query this line as over the last couple of years in particular in the UK the band have bounced back to a wider audience and the Inferno album is critically acclaimed with the Heavy Metal scene. Their American and European profile is also at something of a peak just now and the band are held in a form of reverence akin to the status of AC/DC, Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest etc. There should be a bit of rewrite at the end to acknowledge the fact that the band is on the up again. The term "mainstream" for this type of band is a bit grey as many Heavy Metal bands don't release singles or they are pretty much ignored while still selling millions of albums and having huge sell out tours.

You know, it would be nice if you signed your comments (that is, of course, if you are registered). It's not so hard - just type four tildes. Roda 21:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


I speak from personal experience, I was with Motorhead right up until 1916 and then didn't buy anything after that until this year when I filled in all the gaps in one go! Mainly because they were becoming too popular! I would say they were perceived to be trying to appeal to the mainstream in the late 80s and early 90s and when that failed, they reverted to form from Bastards onwards. I regret not keeping up with them in the meantime, but am making ammends now. Besides, in England at least, commercial failure just makes a fella into a Cult figure! 193.238.233.2 15:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Lemmy probably doesn't pronounce the name /'məʊtəhɛd/. /ə/ would actually be a completely acceptable and common pronounciation of germanic "ö". Also the transcription is clearly phonematic, so it should be given as ['məʊtəhɛd]. -- bkhl 16:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

Been thinking about this for some time. I'll add more stuff soon! Roda 15:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

There, I've added some. I'll add more when I have the time. Roda 16:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Motorhead in WWE

Does this really need to be a seperate paragraph, and indeed the second section in the article? It would seem to be more appriopriate either as part of the Trivia section or as a Motorhead in Popular Culture section. S.Skinner 16:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with this, but mainly because of my aversion to this "sport". I may be biased! 193.238.233.2 14:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Now moved to Supporters section, where the motorheadbangers should now be looking at what is otherwise essential for that para.--Alf melmac 13:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Dirty Love album, circa 1988/89

I've got this album, I'm pretty sure it's a Castle cash-in job, but I will dig it out over the weekend. It basically contained about 10 tracks which must have been recorded around 79/80 because it has a demo version of Ace Of Spades and some others off that album under a different name. Really basic production, but pretty good stuff. Where would this fit into the discography and would you mind if I added it, or at least gave you the details to add (I'm very new to wiki!). Wouldn't want to mess this excellent article up! 193.238.233.2 14:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

it would go under 'EPs'

There are many non-sanctioned releases of Motorhead stuff, we have only included the officially released stuff. --Alf melmac 13:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

SummerSlam Pay-Per-View

can anyone varifie the track called "Heat of the Day"?

Translations

What do the words in the cd booklet of Kiss Of Death mean? (---Nati vt victi, omnes moritvri nemimi crede, age solvte ambvlare per plvrimarvm anima rvm oceanvm pedes vlx madefacit qvodcvmqve facis, nos primi, et melivs, fecimvs---)Lemmy the lurch 03:42, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

The best I could come up with on some translation website (after changing some of the Vs to Us) was "Nation when victor omnes morituri nemimi to believe age loosening to walk very plurimarum breath rum oceanum going on foot ulx madefacit whatsoever a bundle , we first , and better fecimus" - hmmm, no wonder wars are started! Bubba hotep 19:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
It's not great latin but is roughly - Born as they conquer, all will die in no belief, through very many spirits scarcely did the ocean make the feet wet. Whatever you do, we did it first and better. --Alf melmac 19:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Motorhead disambig vs redirect - the saga conituum...

Please see here for the latest "discussion" Bubba hotep 12:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

Where did half the trivia section diasappear? Roda 19:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Most of it was completely pointless trivia. The notable ones have been left. HK51 20:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Not all of it was completely pointless.
*Lemmy's last name is often misspelled as "Kilminster".
*Phil Campbell is a Manchester United fan.    
*Neither Lemmy nor Phil can swim.
*Both Mikkey and Phil's first concerts were Deep Purple.
*Campbell used to play drums, backing caberet acts and strippers around South Wales.
*Lemmy and Philthy hosted the very first Headbangers Ball on MTV.
*Würzel started out his musical life as a drummer and did not start learning the guitar until the age of 24.
I mean, isn't this kind of stuff the whole point of a trivia section? Roda 10:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, all of that is just pointless. I mean, Lemmy's name being mispelt? Hardly notable. The fact two of the band members can't swim? I mean, that's just mundane.
The point of a Trivia section is really to show some short bits of interesting information about the subject of the article, not to give out boring, pointless information. HK51 17:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, I was actually thinking of moving some of the trivia which is not related to the band as a whole to each person's article, i.e. trivia pertaining to Lemmy be moved to his article, and so forth. It does look better now it has been trimmed down and I think trivia should be limited to subject. In my humble opinion, of course. ;) Bubba hotep 19:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd be happy with it being moved to the member articles. HK51 21:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

All trivia has been removed to more appropriate places or included where it is relevant in the text.--Alf melmac

Motörhead's cover of Metallica's Enter Sandman for trivia section?

I had heard some interesting stories about Motörhead's cover of Metallica's Enter Sandman which they produced for ECW as entrance music for long time ECW wrestler Sandman. As is mentioned in the Enter Sandman article, ECW commissioned Motörhead to produce the cover after a royalty dispute of some sort with Metallica. The instrumentation of the two songs is so similar that they are virtually indistinguishable until the vocals start. I had also heard a rumor that there was some friction between the two bands after the cover was produced because Metallica had given permission for the cover version out of respect for Motörhead, but hadn't been told that it was being produced for use with ECW.

Anyway, if someone with access to Motörhead sources is familiar with the backstory of the song, and can provide an appropriate reference, it sounded like an interesting short paragraph to include in this article, either in the Trivia or Wrestling sections. The story ties together two heavy hitters in metal with professional wrestling, making it possibly an interesting aside to fans of any of the three. The cover song itself is still available, although I don't remember on which specific album (music of ECW? I downloaded it from Itunes about six months ago). Dugwiki 23:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, "Metallica" and "royalty dispute" - sounds familiar! That sounds like a very good bit of trivia, if it can be sourced. I have a bit of a problem with Motorhead and sweaty men dressed in lycra being addressed in the same sentence... however thanks for that. I must say, their cover of Whiplash on the new album is both top notch and banging. Besides, what Metallica does every 3 years, Motorhead does every other... and better. opinion getting me into trouble again Bubba hotep 00:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

BOC Support

I have only ever seen Motorhead once but I think it is worth a mention. Sometime in the early-mid-70s we went to Hammersmith Odeon to see Blue Oyster Cult. To our delight the support was Motorhead. They were shambolic but we loved them.

I had seen Larry Wallis in Pink Fairies once (at Northampton, UK, County Cricket Ground) about a year or so before, I recall their shambolic performance after turning up late (can't recall their support)).

I had also seen Motorhead a few times with and without Lemmy - a highlight in HW was him machine-gunning the audience by holding his Rickenbacker on his shoulder. He did this when supporting BOC. It was, I think, when he started using that unique playing style and the angled down microphone.

They played Silver Machine at the HO and their eponymous track (b-side of HW's Kings of Speed single) and another HW fave that HW never played 'Lost Johnny'. Other tracks included at least one Pink Fairies song, Larry Wallis's 'Police Car' (which I remembered from the Stiffs Tour) and the inevitable Louie Louie.

I had always thought that this BOC support was MH's debut....

Does the trivia section mention the Motorhead Tribute Album?

Finally, we enjoyed a Motorhead tribute band last year ' Motorheadache'! Apparently they are liked by members of Motorhead too.

Royzee 18:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

An addition to the trivia section

Motorhead made a guest appearance on an episode of the Drew Carey show. I am too lazy to look anything up right now about it. BrainRotMenacer 08:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Motorhead featured article, coming soon ;)

This is a very good article in en wiki, about music (& rock, metal). I think that article coming soon "arrive" to Featured article candidates. good job Alf ^_^ --Xsamurai 12:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Why thanks, some of it's driving me nuts, but hey, they're worth it. It will need a lot of polish and there's still a decade missing before we even start looking towards a featured article though, one day.... --12:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

This article need pictures. I know photos of the band in action at various dates are going to be a long call, but it should be possible to get hold of a poster or flyer for the first gig, Burridge reproduces one in the Illustrated Guide for example - it looks like a b&w repro of a colour flyer, and I still haven't knackered my Bomber, Ace of Spades and 1916 'picture booklets' but they'll be tricky to fit into the text space without some juggling, and the 1916 album was not 'toured' as such and therefore wouldn't fit naturally in the text - bah! I'm really desirous of the 86 Monsters of Rock poster though, which I never went to :( If there is anyone willing to scan/photo hand flyers/posters/adverts for the original albums they'd at least make it less text dense. Thanks--Alf melmac 13:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll try and scan the ones from the Rock 'n' Roll booklet. Btw., nice rewrite mate! Roda 16:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Most excellent, thanks for that and for picking up on Todd Youth, that was me :s - Bubba is the one with the finese, I jump dust the data ;) --Alf melmac 17:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)