Talk:Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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[edit] Plot

I think that the plot section needs to be expanded and refined a bit. I know that the movie really has very little actual plot, so that may be a problem, but we have to much information outside of the plot section anyway.Mbatman72 20:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Memorable moments - Bridge

The quotes near the end should have a link to Wikiquote. Tyro the Kinky Kitty 02:48, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think that this part could maybe be expanded slightly to include the most famous unladen swallow question and king arthurs response. This is a very part of the script and has a lot of geek culture involved. See this site.--82.3.32.75 00:37, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

While I appreciate the importance of this film, I wonder if it would be wise to merge, e.g., Knights who say Ni in with this article... Martin 22:55 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Dentist on the Job introductory film only appear on the DVD? (And maybe on the video (Confession: I haven't bought the VHS!!). I've seen this film umpteen times at the cinema, and as far as I recall each time it begins with the funny subtitles...--Arwel 23:04 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

It's not on my VHS copy. Dunno about the original theatrical release though.-Nommo
It's not on either my VHS or my DVD, though I recall there's a more-deluxe DVD that came out after I got mine.-- John Owens 21:14 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
Afterthought: It would go a long ways towards explaining the stuff about "the sharpened end of an interspace toothbrush given to her by Svenge, her brother-in-law, an Oslo dentist and star of many films such as Hot Hands of an Oslo Dentist, Fillings of Passion, The Huge Molars of (I forget the name)....", etc.-- John Owens 21:18 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I have the double-DVD (UK version), and it's not on that either (AFAIR) Jimregan 21:22 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I've got the double-DVD widescreen UK version that was released last year (Columbia-TriStar CDR 14164), and it is on that.-- Arwel 21:57 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I'll look again. Jimregan 22:34 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
So it is. Humble apologies. Jimregan 22:41 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
Dang it, now I'm jealous. :( -- John Owens 22:51 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
You should be jealous. Subtitles for people who don't like the film, the Camelot scene done in Lego, an entertaining commentary... --Jimregan 22:58 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
Jimregan, I hate you ;p-- John Owens
If it makes you feel better, my Life of Brian and Meaning of Life dvd's don't have any extras :)-- Jimregan 23:16 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
You have a Meaning of Life DVD, too? I wish to retract my earlier statement. I no longer hate you. I now despise you ;p
I've been looking for one of those for a while, even though I already have it on VHS, and I never seem to find it, though I know there have been DVD editions of it.-- John Owens
You can get it here -- Jimregan
Well, without paying those collectible prices, I mean. :p I've checked on Amazon before, yeah.--John Owens
I suppose. I got it used from the local video rental place for €15. I paid something like 3 times that for Holy Grail.--Jimregan
I don't suppose John's in Region 2 -- I was just reading the June edition of Total DVD and I see there's a box set of Holy Grail, Meaning of Life, Life of Brian, and And Now For Something Completely Different being released next month for GBP 39.99...--Arwel 00:02 May 10, 2003 (UTC)
I'd like to take this time to decry the existence of the different region codes for DVD's.--Dante Alighieri 23:20 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've heard that Monty Python and the Holy Grail is a major scene for scene parody of Polanski's Macbeth.--Sparky 00:58, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How so?--Adam Bishop 00:59, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Various scenes BEGIN identically. PLUS the Camelot legos movie was downloadable...--Sparky 01:02, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Artichoke's are tasty too... :-/ IMSoP 22:30, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

There seems to be a missing word in the paragraph about the opening credits: "According to the group's DVD commentary track, ______ were included in part to save on the film's budget." Not having seen the DVD, I can't say what it was intended to be (Looks like 'these').

Then 'these' it is, then.--217.199.54.130 13:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A dove is not the same as a swallow

I'm pretty sure that sir Bedevere is messing about with a white dove and not a swallow.

You're TELLIN' me here. I would've NEVER have figured that out myself ;) Heheheheh.--217.199.54.130 13:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Possible source for many jokes?

I am pretty much convinced that the "Lancelot wedding assault" and "The Bridge" scenes were inspired by similar ones from a 1968 Italian movie, "L'Armata Brancaleone" by Mario Monicelli. The whole idea is also quite similar, for in this movie a poor knight is convinced by some peasants to claim a fief, whose grant documents were stolen (By them) from a noble. They then set in a "quest" to find this fief, suffering all the vicissitudes of medieval life - plague, religious fundamentalism, etc.

I disbelieve this. It's too far before their actin' time, and too close to their time to pass unnoticed...although rippin' is common among communi...eh, comic's, it's no new idea they're comin' up with. Satirization of religion and medieval times may be a usual subject among actors....and the movie would've been lashed if this was discovered. By the way, there's an difference; Here there's not just a poor knight, but a whole troupe of rich knights fighting the french and a bridge of Death. Definately more inspired by the actual tales of the knights of the round table rather than an obscure italian movie. Totally out of question, that's for sure! Stop these vile accusations, now!--217.199.54.130 13:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Release date

I've changed the release date back to 1975, as that is the year in which the official premiere occured. While there were some small screenings prior to this, they occured while they were still editing the film and therefore I would not believe that they are normally counted as when a film is released. The Pythons Autobiography has the year as 1974, but I believe that is because that is the timeline of when the Pythons were doing things - it was filmed in 1974 and released the next year (the national press preview is referred to after a diary entry dated January 1975 in that book) Average Earthman 13:20, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Classical and medieval literature references

Given the fact that the Python troupe are all Oxford and Cambridge educated (outside of Terry Gilliam), one of my old English profs drew a parallel to Edmund Spencer's The Faery Queen, which depicts a character getting his limbs hacked off one by one. Is this worthy of addition in this article? And, further more, are there any other links between this film and classical literature?--Toquinha 19:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

There are very many references to medieval literature. Terry Jones was a medievalist (and still is), and it's often been asserted that the references are largely his. One such reference is the 'built a castle. It sank. Built another one…' which is part of the Merlin cycle. I have added a rider where the film is described as a 'parody', and a linkt to Terry Jones. I'm not sure if it would be right to add references, for example to the Faery Queen and the Merlin parts. On the one hand, we're always being encouraged to reference. On the other hand, there are so many (and many are quite minor), that it would be illustrative rather than truly referential. Also, the article is already in danger of becoming trivia. Any thoughts? Martin Turner 22:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harvest Moon reference

I haven't actually seen the scene in Harvest Moon: Friends of Mineral Town that is supposedly a reference to the Holy Grail, but given the description of it, that Gary cuts his hand and says "it's only a scratch", I would doubt this is actually a reference to the film. If he cuts off his hand, maybe, but unless that happens, I am skeptical. Reveilled 01:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Since no one has responded to back up the referencial nature of "it's only a scratch", I've removed this entry. Reveilled 02:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Budget

In the DVD commentary track Gilliam says the budget was 230 thousand, so I believe the 150 thousand that's currently in the article is incorrect and will be changing that. Ponijs <fatalis> it also says 230 in this FAQ: http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sources/monty.python.faq.html

That's what he said in the IRC. Note that the user is indefinitely blocked. --Rory096 04:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The "Monty Python and the Holy Grail (Book)" 1977 Eyre Meuthen includes a "Cost of Production Statement". The bottom line is Pounds229,575.00 209.197.157.149 (talk) 02:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening title music

Although the opening titles of this film being quite well remembered, I couldn't find anywhere what the pieces of music used in the opening were. Presumably they were stock pieces of "library music" rather than specifically composed for the film (De Wolfe publishers), but I was wondering if anybody knew what they are called and who composed them. Bob 14:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Chevy Chase Connection

Saturday Night Live producer Lorne Michaels first met Chevy Chase while they were both waiting in line to see Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That meeting led to Chevy being hired on to SNL, and the start of his carrer. Not sure if this bit of trivia is relevant enought to the subject though, but I thought I'd mention it here in case some more experienced Wiki editor wants to reasearch it and add it to the article.

That is the first I have heard of that story. I thought that Michaels met Chase through various National Lampoon sources like Michael O'Donoghue. IrishGuy 09:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
It would probably be more relevant if it were put in the Chevy Chase article, as he and SNL have very little to do with Monty Python.Mbatman72 19:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Italics?

Why is Monty Python, as in the name of the troupe, in italics throughout this article? The name of the film should be in italics, certainly, but not the group. --Charles 03:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I think those italicized words are refering to the TV show, but I do agree that they should be refering to the group and should not be italicized. Salty!Talk! 06:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Castles

The current text states: "whilst the many castles seen throughout the film were either Doune Castle shot from different angles or cardboard models held up against the horizon." This is not entirely true, as the establishing shot for the first caslte (coconuts) is Kidwelly Castle in Wales and Swamp Castle is Bodiam Castle in Kent. They are not cardboard. I've added links to their pages at the bottom, and may just have to change the text. Cheers! (82.12.202.32 10:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Composer??

Who composed the music and/or the lyrics to the Sir Robin minstrel song?--Sonjaaa 20:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Probably Neil Innes. He was their songwriter, in general. Wahkeenah 23:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Innes wrote the music, he even played the Minstrel! Some of the instrumental music was reused (with words) in his BBC TV series The Innes Book Of Records.

[edit] reference

reference to the movie from the legend of the green dragon on www.comfortabledumb.com server for the game

You grab your axe to attack a tree with all your strength.

As you approach a tree, you are suddenly surrounded!

You fall to the ground paralyzed as a group of towering knights start shouting at you in a menacing tone!

'NI! NI! NI!'

However, you recover soon enough to realize that in actuality, they are more annoying than dangerous.

For some odd reason, you pick up a herring and chop down one of the trees in the forest.

You harness the power of 'NI' to attack other creatures!

You've completed Phase 1 of work in the lumber yard. It only took you one turn.

it also gives you a 30 round buff in which before you attack you say Ni! Ni! Ni!

when it runs out its you now say Ecky, Ecky, Ecky, Ecky, P'tang, Zoo Boing! Goodem-zoo-owli-zhiv

--God þe mid sie, WhiteWolf 19:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural references?

Some of the cultural references listed here seem to merely be coincidences, such as the Banjo-Tooie, Dynasty Warriors 4, and Elder Scrolls III: Bloodmoon references. For example, shouting "Run away!" when being attacked is a bit too general to be a reference, as is an elderly man shouting "I'm not dead yet!" when close to death. Ralff 22:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Agreed. I removed the james bond one as WP::OR, and the fact that mentioning a "flesh wound" does not mean that it is quoted from python. It was added back in with no comment. Will remove again and direct here. Angelstorm 16:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
    • The "flesh wound" comment could well be connected with Python, if Cleese is in fact in the same scene, which some sources say is not the case. If not, then it would be very hard to argue for it. The actual expression "flesh wound", long predates Python, and even its ironic use predates Python. For example, the Li'l Abner character called "Fearless Fosdick" (a Dick Tracy parody), would always downplay any gunshot wound as "merely a flesh wound", even if he took it in the heart (non-fatally, of course). Wahkeenah 18:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
      • Agreed, it *could* be connected with python, certainly with the Q being played by Cleese. I can't remember the precise scene off the top of my head so can't comment further .... will re-watch the DVD :) My main issue with this addition is the WP::OR part of it. Without a citation from Cleese or Lee Tamahori ( Director ) it's merely supposition, and too weak to have in an encylopedic article. Angelstorm 23:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shooting question

Does anybody know what order the scenes were filmed? I do know: 1). The scenes weren't shot in chronological order; 2). On the DVD, Gilliam (part of the Gilliam/Jones DVD Commentary) states that the opening scene (the "Coconuts" scene) was shot at the end; and 3). The IMDb says that Chapman was very drunk during the beginning of the shoot, the "Bridge of Death" scene. Thank you. --69.253.15.246 21:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The cultural references

My GOD! That list is larger than the article. I have moved it over to Talk:Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail/reference_list so users can go in, trim it down and take what is most important. Wikipedia isn't a list of trivia. But it is not paper. So try working out what really needs to belong at the reference list and add them to the article. --OrbitOne [Talk|Babel] 21:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Why? It speaks to the influence of this looney film. You'd be hard pressed to find similar influence from the Police Academy series, at least not in a good way. Wahkeenah 14:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

Shouldn't the plot be above production and re-release? That's the tried and true setup. FruitMart07 23:54, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm more concerned about the haphazard nature of the plot summary. (Episodic, strung together only by the quest for the grail? Isn't that how most movies work? They're called "scenes".) For such a landmark film in geek history, the recap is all over the place. I'll take a whack at cleaning it up, while I'm at it I'll move it above the other two. Delius1967 04:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Character articles

The articles which appear in the "Characters" and "Miscellaneous" sections of the {{Monty Python and the Holy Grail}} template seem to be prime candidates for a merge - I propose List of Monty Python and the Holy Grail characters - and that the minor misc. items be merged to this article. In fact, there's no real need for a template for this film at all, since each article on it links to each other through this one. QmunkE 14:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Special Edition DVD

On the file sharing networks, a copy of what has to be the Special Edition DVD of the film is circulating. However, it does not, as the wikipedia page state, miss "the "Swedish" subtitle "Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen" in the film's opening title screen", neither does the opening credits of Dentist on the Job appear "before the voice of the projectionist (presumably that of Terry Jones)".

It was copied (not made / re released) 2004.09.15 according to its information, meaning it can't be the "Extraordinary Deluxe" version. It does contain the two audio commentary tracks, the "get on with it"-cut out scene etc, and a separate DVD with all extra stuff (Japaneese dub, LEGO animation, The Quest for the Holy Grail Locations etc). In order words, it seems to me it has to be the Special Edition DVD, but if that is so, then there are either more than one version of the Special Edition DVD, or the wikipedia page is simply incorrect. Someone with a bit more insight could perhaps look at it? :) -- Ojan 23:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pythons and Coconuts

Here be a User block for Python fans!

This user is a fan of Monty Python, and has faced the Killer Rabbit!

[edit] RuneScape

In RuneScape, there are two (or maybe more) references. The Knights of the party room bear a STRONG resemblance to The Knights of the Round Table. Also, if you use any fish on any tree, it says "This is not the mightiest tree in the forest." Thank you. 12.227.134.125 22:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MP:HG Cultural References

Monty Python and the Holy Grail is one of the most referenced and quoted movies of all time. There has to be some line drawn when including things. The section is getting unruly, and many of the shows, games, and movies mentioned only include the spirit of a 'reference', and not an actual reference to the movie itself. -- KirinX 23:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

A comprehensive list of cultural references may just prove that Wikipedia is paper, afterall. -Groveller 08:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title appears in credits

"The title of the film, which would normally come at the start, appears after 25 minutes."

I am removing this, as it is false. The second credit at the very beginning is the title of the film (with its infamous fake subtitle that is allegedly missing from certain editions), and the animated sequence that appears 25 minutes (24 minutes, to be more precise) into the film features a slightly different title: The Quest for the Holy Grail.Funkeboy 23:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What?

wat happened to my add on at the end of the trivia? about the R2R credits thing? its legit, im one of those weird people who still have a dreamcast, and i just beat the game(not the first time) and there it was. i swear. The juggreserection 03:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC) never mind its there now. The juggreserection 03:30, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitles For People Who Don't Like the Film

Question on authenticity of the source for these subtitles; compare here and the lines below towards the beginning of the movie (at the first castle):

GUARD: A five-ounce bird cannot carry a one-pound coconut.
SUBTITLE: Can a weak empty vessel bear such a huge full hogshead?
KING ARTHUR: Well, it doesn't matter! Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here?
SUBTITLE: 'Tis no matter. Tell thou the earl that the Lord Bardolph doth attend him here.

These two lines, among others (check your DVDs) suggest that Henry IV: Part 2 was adapted into what can basically be called a Shakespeare-esque version of Holy Grail. Anyone? -- M (speak/spoken) 21:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Smacks of original research to me. Interesting, though! Can you find a source? (other than the play) =David(talk)(contribs) 00:04, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French taunter

Shouldn't we have a page about the French taunter? He is a pretty popular character, and leads one of the most humorous scenes in the film.

See the Userbox. — JuWiki (Talk <> Resources) 01:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

An entire page about a character that has about 10 lines? Non. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 01:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

"In the SRPG Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories, there is an item called Charred Newt. The description says "It didn't get better.", referring to Sir Lancelot."

This isn't referring to Sir Lancelot, but a villager John Cleese was playing at the time. To reference Shakespeare, "One man in his time can play many parts..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.41.53.33 (talk) 19:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

//pink floyd-Monty Python\\

Is the pink floyd song chapter 24, any relation to scene 24 in the film? pink floyd gave a lot of funds to the making of holy grail. MrOrange91 12:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Composing Role of Neil Innes

I went to see Spamalot in London last night, and was disappointed to see that Neil Innes was not given any composing credit for the music on the poster. I had always assumed he had a big hand in most of the songs in the movie, and nearly all of them re-appear in Spamalot.

First Innes gets done by Paul McCartney for half the royalties to The Rutles; now it seems Eric Idle is trying to write Innes out of the Grail's musical history. 81.146.17.169 13:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How much has the movie made?

I wonder how much money the movie has made? Samulili (talk) 09:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three merges

I believe that Sir Robin, Black Beast of Aaaaarrrrrrggghhh and Gorge of Eternal Peril should be merged here because none of them appear to meet the WP:FICT guidelines. There is some real world info for Gorge of Eternal Peril, but no references, and even if some are found, that info could easily be merged into a production section here. -- Scorpion0422 23:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Olfin Bedwere of Rheged?

According to Tim, the words in the Cave of Caerbannog are the last words of Olfin Bedwere of Rheged. And yet, in the cave, when Brother Maynard says the script is in Aramaic, there's the whole "Of course! Joseph of Aramathea" moment. So what gives? Is this a continuity error? IS Joseph of Aramathea also Olfin Bedwere of Rheged? Did Olfin Bedwere quote Joseph of Aramathea's last words as HIS last words? Or did the knights just find the wrong inscription in the cave? Applejuicefool (talk) 16:33, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Minigame Title Dispute Needs Confirmation

I loved the game 7th level put out back in the day, and if I remember correctly, the tetris clone was called "Drop Dead", not "Bring out your dead", though that is the title of the scene it spoofs. If i also remember correctly, there were seperate executable files on the cd-rom that played the seperate minigames... perhaps I'll try to find that old game...I always found it hilarious when the "not dead" piece would fall & twich around on the way down, trying to mess you up. -- Bubacxo 08:40, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gawain or Bors

Please provide a resource proving that it is Bors and not Gawain. Continued edits without further discussion may constitute an edit war. Bob the Wikipedian, the Tree of Life WikiDragon (talk) 16:11, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

In the movie, it clearly refers to him as "Bors". I believe that scene was uploaded on youtube. Gawain and Ector die in the next assault. Delduþling♦talk 21:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cast Table

I updated the cast table, which seemed extremely unprofessional. I tried to make it more concise and less silly. Just because the movie is silly does not mean the wikipedia page should be silly as well. Delduþling♦talk 22:07, 10 May 2008 (UTC)