Talk:Modern art
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[edit] Introduction
I think this first paragraph has some problems:
"MOST of the artistic production" ? -- is not an accurate statement. Perhaps it could be changed to "most of what is now recognized as canonical"
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- "Modern art refers to the then new approach to art where it was no longer important to represent a subject realistically — the invention of photography had made this function of art obsolete."
Did Impressionist painters "represent a subject less realistically" than earlier painters like Velasquez, Delacroix, Tiepolo etc ? Did they, or their supporters, ever claim that they did ?
And if "photography had made this function of art obsolete" - then why have some of the highest paid artists of the 20th (and 21st) century been portrait painters ?
- Who is paid the most is not the typically the factor in determining which artists most define an era. Indeed often the artists recalled most are the ones least appreciated in their own time.
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- "Instead, artists started experimenting with new ways of seeing, with fresh ideas about the nature, materials and functions of art, often moving further toward abstraction."
But more often than not -- not moving further toward abstraction. Abstraction is only one of many strategies used in this period.--Mountshang 15:51, 15 November 2005 (UTC)I think there needs to be pictures of modern art
I kind of agree that the photography/art distnction is overly simplistic. But I am assuming a general readership, and this is a good place to start. I have rephrased the sentence to make it less emphatic, but have kept the original sense.--Ethicoaestheticist 21:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- The original paragraph which contained this sentence: "Modern art refers to the then new approach to art where it was no longer important to represent a subject realistically — the invention of photography had made this function of art obsolete" was preferable to the recent edit. Similarly the recent change to Criticism. Modernist 22:55, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Modern Art
Surely modern art refers to the use of modern techniques such as acrylic paint, video, installation etc. What I think is meant by "Modern art" here is "Modernist art". There is a need for a new category ie Modernism or modernist art
- Consulting a dictionary reveals that modern art is indeed the correct term. Increasingly, the term modern is losing its sense of "contemporary" and referring instead to early twentieth century existence. Theshibboleth 06:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Misc
Question: why is Joseph Cornell not included in this page? Or are his contributions better classified elsewhere? Summer1979 23:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
April 10, 2007 - I've fixed up some wording and deleted the absurd statement that photography made representative art obsolete.
How about Georgia O'keefe?? Shouldn't she be included? 70.19.155.240 08:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Part I - The section labelled as 'criticism' is completely subjective garbage! e.g. the opening sentence: "Modern art is often viewed as a degenerate form of art by antimodernists as it requires relativley no skill, thought or research to produce." - subjective rubbish, with no basis in fact! (which is the point of Wikipedia, no?)
Part II - IMHO there really *needs* to be an image or an explicit reference to Pablo Picasso's painting Les Demoiselles d'Avignon (1907), it comes up repeatedly in nearly everything I have ever read/seen about modern art as one of the paradigm shifts into this era of art. - I would change/add it, but this is my first visit (as a potential editor) and I am still learning the correct techniques for editing articles. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Part III - Who and what is "Evasion Lyrique by Maryse Casol, 2004.", and why is an image of a painting from 2004 in the modern art page? Sam.B 23:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with the critique of the criticism section...this needs a serious rewrite; I'll post the old version here in case anything is usable.
- The Casol pictures are lovely, but I agree that she is not eminent enough to earn a place here.
- It would be sensible to replace the present Picasso with a more significant work if you can find an open-licensed image. Hgilbert 15:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
It has been a while now, and I'm glad to see someone has edited out the 'criticism' section. regarding 'Hgilbert's previous comment, I was not questioning Casols' level of eminence, rather the inclusion of any work of art from 2004... as that is a LONG time after the academically accepted definitions of the period that defines 'modern art' to my knowledge. (A minimum of at least 30 years). The opening sentence of the page, IMHO needs to be adressed, 'modern art' from as early as the 17C?! I have never read/seen/heard any such broad definition of 'modern art'. There may be somewhat differing dates as to when exactly the period encompasses, but if you truly understand the defintion of 'modern art'; the dates are almost always regarded as starting sometime in the late 19th century (sometimes the very, very early 20th century), and lasting until some time in the third quarter of the 20th century. Anyone else have an opinion on changing this, please? Sam.B (talk) 11:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Most textbooks agree on a beginning sometime in the 19th century, though they differ on whether early or late. Consulting this article's References section, Arnason 2003, p. 17 says "The most commonly chosen, perhaps, is 1863, the year of the Salon des Refusés in Paris, . . . But other and even earlier dates may be considered: 1855, . . . 1824, when the English landscapists John Constable and Richard Parkes Bonington exhibited their brilliant, direct-color studies from nature at the Paris Salon, . . . or even 1784, when Jacques-Louis David (1748–1825) finished his Oath of the Horatii. . . .” Hunter, Jacobus, and Wheeler 2004, p. 9, says "Some have persuasively argued that the origins of 20th-century art go back as far as the 1750s, when the 18th-century Enlightenment sparked an aesthetic rehabilitation that would gradually replace elaborate Rococo artifice with soberer form and greater sincerity of feeling," and goes on to mention a succession of later dates that have been proposed (1839, 1855, 1863). Cahoone 2003 considers the era to begin at the time of René Descartes (hence, sometime early in the 17th century). David's Oath of the Horatii was the starting-point when I took a year-long survey of Modern Art (a very long time ago now, to be sure) at the University of Nebraska. Art-school course catalogs today sometimes begin in the mid-19th century (e.g., McGill University ARTH205: "Introduction to Modern Art" places this period "from 1850 to the present"), but often push back the starting-point further. For example, at the University of Washington, ART H 203 "Survey of Western Art--Modern" covers from 1520 to the present, while UCLA ART HIS 54 "Modern Art" covers from the period of the French Revolution to circa 1968. As can be seen, there is also no consensus on whether "postmodern" art marks a new era, or is just the latest subdivision of of the Modern Art period.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] verification tag reduction
The refimrove template at the head of the page would seem to obviate the need for a verication tag cluttering nearly every sentence—even a sentence asserting that there's more video art in galleries today than there was in the immediate post-WWII years. This article could be better sourced, and will be. But given the length of time the tags have been in place, and given the difficulty of finding retrospective sources that fully support some of the lines that were tagged here, it seems better to move them to the talk page until they can be replaced with fresh material properly sourced. The controversial lines deleted stated:
