Talk:Minor league baseball

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 Minor league baseball was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: September 10, 2006
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Can somebody help me with this table? I have some extraneous entries between the table title and the beginning of the table, and I can't figure out where they're coming from. I'm not very good at this table thing.  :-( -- Zoe

Found 'em. A few of the <tr> tags were missing the <. I find it's easier to track down the problem bits if you do a "view source" on the page from your browser; the broken tags will appear in sequence there, and with at least some browsers (ex, Mozilla) there'll appear highlighted in a different color from the working tags, so they're easier to spot. --Brion VIBBER

Since this page grew too big, I separated the list of teams into a separate article. WhisperToMe 02:47, 14 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I apologize if I edit someone else's comments. It really isn't clear to me how someone should simply add a comment here.

Regarding the very end of the article, what is the basis for the comparison of the Florida/Albuquerque attendance? It looks to me like Florida outdrew Albuquerque by more than 2 to 1 on the season.

Contents

[edit] Independent minor league baseball

There is a gaping hole in this article regarding independent leagues. Iceberg3k 14:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bull Durham

I think the effect the movie Bull Durham had on minor league baseball should be mentioned. From the movie's wikipedia article: "Most of all, Bull Durham revived interest in minor league baseball, which had been stagnating in small-town areas for decades, to where minor league teams achieve decent attendance and are even subject to relocation/bidding wars between communities." Wangster 05:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Another reference from here [1] "Then there was the Hollywood factor. When baseball's longtime unofficial rival began making baseball films, seats began to fill more rapidly at the ball park. Hollywood produced a flood of successful baseball movies that caught itself up in the game's rising popularity. The most direct hit from the minor league perspective was Bull Durham (1988), written and directed by former minor leaguer Ron Shelton. Instantly, the demand for Durham Bulls souvenirs shot upward on a national scale, and other minor league front offices noticed a significant coattail effect for their merchandise." Wangster 05:51, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor League vs. minor league?

This article distinguishes minor league baseball from Minor League Baseball; It seems like most of the content of this article, other than independant leagues should fall under the Minor League article, though I could be wrong...? I found it confusing to determine what actually fell under Minor League Baseball vs. independant... TheHYPO 07:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the articles should remain seperate. "minor league baseball" is about minor league baseball as a group of leagues playing in below the major leagues -- a concept. "Minor League Baseball" is about an organization, officially and legally titled as such, which operates minor league baseball in the U.S. --CPAScott 13:47, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree with nonmerger per CPAScott. Kinston eagle 12:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I also agree with a nonmerger of the articles. The distinction that CPAScott identifies is significant and important. Independent leagues that are not part of "Minor League Baseball" should be under "minor league baseball" and can't rightly be put in with "Minor League Baseball". 12:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I definitely support a nonmerger. Nick22aku 20:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I would also like to see more of a history on minor league baseball. I can't even conceive of the amount of effort it might take, but I recall older relatives talking about local B,C, and D teams that played in practically every small city before TV. Some were "affiliates" of major league teams, but would get 20-30 used gloves, etc. for their work. Autkm (talk) 06:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I support nonmerger for the reasons cited by CPAScott dashiellx (talk) 10:59, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Failed

This article failed the GA noms due to lack of references. Tarret 00:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Professionalism in minor leagues

Are the minor leagues really professional? I thought that it was amateur just because of its position below the major leagues. Scott Gall 04:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


Yes indeed, they are professional; all players are under contract and receive pay. Of course, at the lowest levels, the pay isn't much.Wschart 16:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hyphenation?

I did not want to storm in and make changes, but it seems to me that except in the formal name of the organization "Minor League Baseball" (where the form is up to the owner of the name) "minor-league" as a compound adjective ought always to be hyphenated: "minor-league baseball", including in the title of the article. Would anyone have problems with that? Owlcroft 22:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Class vs. Term?

Typically Double A and Triple A are not called Class AA or Class AAA but Single A is called Class A or Class A Advanced

The terms (Triple-A vs AAA) are interchangeable. And there are three single-A levels - high-A, low-A, and short-season A. | Mr. Darcy talk 19:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger Question

By all means merge this article with Minor League Baseball. Kenallen 02:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Seems a bit silly to have two such similarly themed articles! Merge 'em! MeegsC | Talk 08:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Why is there even discussion? Merge these now. Brandonrush 23:08, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Would an expert on this topic please merge. phish_bulb 18:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Merge! This confuses as is. One article can explain the various levels, organizations and types of baseball in the minors. Goeverywhere 04:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

A prior poster has a better solution, this article should properly be named minor-league baseball and should not be merged with an article that is about one specific entity, namely the association of farm clubs run by Major League baseball known as Minor League Baseball. Awotter 20:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge. The separation presupposes that the reader already knows the distinction, and is quite confusing for the layman. Jd2718 12:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that as it currently is set up, it is very confusing to someone who would not expect minor league baseball to refer to two different (but not wholly separate entities). I would vote against merging as they are separate and a combined article could be as confusing as the current situation. Two articles written probably by a single person on both subjects referring to the other but emphasizing the differences would probably be best. Autkm (talk) 06:24, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. In my opinion, these two should DEFINITELY be merged. But how does one go about doing this? --Mm40 (talk) 01:36, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, for one thing one waits for a consensus to develop. Also, one gives reasons for one's opinions. I most emphatically disagree that these articles should be merged. One article, the proper noun, refers to a specific organization of leagues with ties to major league teams. The common-noun title is the generic name for all minor leagues, including many that are not affiliated with the majors; where would discussion of these leagues go? The two articles discuss different subjects, and merger would only further confuse the issue. The confusion arises from the organization appropriating the common noun for use as its proper name. Merger would be akin to merging Window (computing) with Microsoft Windows.

That being said, although much of the history is relevant to both the organization and minors in general, it should be edited with at least some degree of emphasis on the development of teams not affiliated with the majors. And the discussion of levels is a discussion of Minor League Baseball the organization, not minor league baseball the type of league, and should be removed from this article and placed in Minor League Baseball.

Much of the content of this page pertains only to the Minor League Baseball organization. That does not mean, however, that there is no need for an article on minor league baseball, the levels of professional baseball that are below the major leagues in quality of play.

I am interested in hearing other viewpoints, but one or two word assertions do not make an argument. This is, after all, a discussion page. Please, why should they be merged?Illexsquid (talk) 19:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

So, this has been discussed for nearly 9 months with no conclusion? Makes you wonder what the level of interest is. The dilemma is that the National Association renamed itself Minor League Baseball, while teams in the Northern League, for example, are clearly minor leagues but without the NA affiliation. However, there's not enough info to really justify a separate article about "Minor League Baseball", as I see it. One approach would be to use the Baseball America Directory approach and treat them all as nearly-alike, with a nod to MiLB as being obviously a much larger organization than the independents. But at the very least, there needs to be disambiguation. The upper vs. lower case is confusing. MiLB could be renamed as MiLB (organization). Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:25, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Strongly in favor of this approach. Minor League Baseball (the corporate entity) is an established organization and needs to be referred to as such (either as "MiLB" or "Minor League Baseball", it doesn't really matter), but it's also important to have an article referring to minor league baseball (the idea). Perhaps call the generic article "Minor league professional baseball" instead? That at least provides both the necessary context and allows for a discussion of all the minor leagues, be they affiliated with MiLB or not. Obviously, there would then be a variety of articles providing more context on various aspects or divisions of the minor league system. Duncan1800 (talk) 04:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
"Minor league professional baseball" is not a term anyone would think to look for. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 09:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

My main objection to a merge is simply that not all minor league baseball teams are part of Minor League Baseball. The independent leagues {such as the Northern League) are not part of Minor League Baseball. They are separate entities altogether. --WoohookittyWoohoo! 11:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the majority view that it is appropriate to have separate articles for "minor league baseball," the concept, and "Minor League Baseball," the organization which includes many but not all minor leagues. However, much of the information now presented in THIS article is specifically about affiliated leagues and the mechanics of farm systems. I think this specific information--anything which does NOT apply to the independent minors--should be moved over. Spark240 (talk) 02:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

It might surprise some of you to learn that the term "National Association" is still very much alive. Baseball America Directory as well as the MiLB site itself [2] still use the NA term in the present tense. It's as if the NA is the organization and MiLB is the "brand". Whether that helps or hinders the decision on this point remains to be seen. However, the obvious thing to do would be to rename the capitalized MiLB to MiLB Organization, and link it within the generic Milb article along with links to the non-affiliated minor leagues.
In short, Do Not Merge. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 11:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)