Talk:Mineiro

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag
Portal
 Mineiro is within the scope of WikiProject Brazil, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Brazil and Brazil-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Stub This article has been rated as stub-class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
To-do list for Brazil:

[edit] Not a dialect

There is absolutely no such thing as a Mineiro dialect. It is, at most, a regional variant. The claims that (1) "mineiro" is avoided by its adopters is false (most inhabitants of Belo Horizonte adopt a milder version of it) and (2) that it is considered a lower variation is unfounded. It's probably considered no better or worse than "nordestino", "gaúcho" or "carioca" (Well, perhaps better than "carioca.") --AndreFillipe (talk) 19:33, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It is simply not a dialect. It's just a type of accent and different expressions, which is quite common in all countries. It's like saying the english from New York is an english dialect. And by the way, the claim above that "carioca" portuguese is "worse" than "mineiro" is absurd, since not only is Rio de Janeiro the most culturally and historically important city in the country, but the accent and expressions of its inhabitants are both shared and recognized by most Brazilians. The same thing could not be said of regions like São Paulo and Rio Grande do Sul. In any case, this article should be simply deleted, since it's totally misrepresented. -- 201.52.16.108 00:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I fully Agree with the statement above. I actually speak Portugese-Brazilian with a Belo Horizonte accent. Simply due to the fact.. I'm from there. The overall difference between the soft spoken paulista accent og the fast talking accent of Carioca. Is just that. Citizens from both Sao Paulo and Rio, say that people from the Minas Gerais, simply speak more clearly and slowly. Nothing more...

Just to put the discussion in context for non-Brazilians who might be following it: the reactions above illustrate a typical Brazilian reluctance to use the term "dialect", which is culturally perceived as having a negative connotation. Of course, in purely linguistic terms, "mineiro" is obviously a dialect of the Brazilian Portuguese language (no negative interpretation attached). Likewise, contrary to what one commentator wrote above, one usually refers in the U.S. to e.g. the "Southern American" , "New Englander", or "General American/Midwestern" dialects. Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with the "mineiro" article. In fact, it is quite well-written, especially its description of "mineiro" phonology (further information on "mineiro" grammar and vocabulary could be added though). 201.52.32.9 11:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is not well written because it is entirely original research. Furthermore, my first remark (I have signed it now) was directed at the following part of the text (as of August 4, 2006):
The simultaneous occurrence of all the above features can render the dialect mostly unintelligible for those not used to it, but it rarely occurs --- as mineiro is regarded by some of its own speakers, specially the urban ones, as a "lower" dialect, a pattern to be avoided. For this same reason, Mineiro is never written, except for humoristic purposes, and usually looks "ugly" in the eyes of the Brazilians when it is done.
Is that connotative? --AndreFillipe (talk) 19:33, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Although I'm not a linguistics expert, I'd like to say I'm not sure whether Mineiro is a dialect or just an accent (I guess it depends on the linguistic tradition adopted). But, even in the case it's to be considered as a dialect, what would make it a separate dialect from Caipira? I'm from a town at the São Paulo state countryside, and, except for the pronunciation of "r", I can't tell any difference from what's being described here to my own way of speaking. Eumedemito 02:07, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
And, furthermore... Some of the features described seem to me as not specific to "Mineiro", but common to many, if not most, typical Brazilian dialects/accents/[whatever...]. And it's not clear whether those features are being compared to colloquial Brazilian Portuguese or to standard Portuguese. The latter, by the way, wouldn't make any sense. E.g.: It would sound weird to me if I heard anyone saying "pouco" as /'powku/ instead of /'poku/, except in a formal situation or perhaps on the news. It's important to note that there's a significant difference between the colloquial language and its standard form (usually associated with writing or formal situations). Eumedemito 07:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The expression "dialect" carries some negative conotation in Brazil. This is probably thanks to the historical fact that slaves had all these different ways to talk among themselves and Portuguese was seen as the one "right" language to speak. Hence, there's a lot of protective feelings regarding the Portuguese language. Most Brazilian people wouldn't even consider Brazilian Portuguese as being a dialect of Portuguese - in fact, people would even consider it a different language, but wouldn't say it's a dialect. The same thing happens in the United States and is probably a characteristic common to countries with a large territory. I'm removing the "disputed" sign since it's there mainly due to linguistics ignorance - the Brazilian mineiro way of speaking is indeed a dialect, from a pure linguistic POV, albeit not a radical one (just in case you're wondering, I'm from Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais, Brazil). --200.139.133.7 03:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

How much of this is original research? I've never seen such a discussion in scholarly fields, and Mineiro is more classified as a "falar" and not a dialect in itself. But if there are any scholarly works saying Mineiro is a dialect, please quote them in the article. As it stands, seems like original research. Bruno Gripp 20:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

Made a few changes, see if you like it. Cheers

[edit] unsigned discussions

The message immediately above mine is not signed. If you have posted this message, please type four tildes after your contribution, and your name and the date will appear after the message. learnportuguese 21:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)