Talk:Millenarianism

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Assessment comments

If millennialism and millenarianism are the same, this article is particularly wrong. The Christian sects listed specifically do not believe in the closing of a millenium, but the coming of a millenium after the second coming of Jesus Christ found in the New Testament book of Revelation, chapter twenty-one, as you touched on briefly. There is no Christian theology or doctrine, even among fringe sects, that speak of a present millenium and a coming millenium. Lastly, the name does not derive from the supposed return in 1000 AD, but from the term found in the book of Revelation.

The more mainstream theologies found in Catholicism, Protestantism, and Orthodox Christianity actually are what is described in the article. Those examples would be postmillenialism, amillenialism, and preterism. But again, these theologies do not believe in a millennium after the apocalypse. Rather, either a doctrine adheres to that idea of a coming millenium where one does not exist now, or a present millenium where one is not coming.

This is where the corrections should be made.

Yamauchi 07:57, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

From the article:

The words millenism, millennialism, millennianism, millenniarism and millenniumism are rarer synonyms.

If millennialism is a synonym of millenarianism, the two articles should be merged.

Objections?

<KF> 19:06, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Millennialism is a form of Millenarianism based on a one thousand year cycle. The two terms are NOT synonymous. And both Millennial and Millenarian groups extend far beyond Christianity. Most of this page belongs on the Millennialism page. The classic study of millenarianism is Peter Worsley, The Trumpet Shall Sound: A Study of ‘Cargo’ Cults in Melanesia, second, augmented, edition (New York: Schocken Books, 1968).

See also:

Kaplan, Jeffrey. 1997a. Radical Religion in America: Millenarian Movements from the Far Right to the Children of Noah. Syracuse, N.Y.: Syracuse University Press.

This page needs a rewrite. --Cberlet 23:37, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Looking it up it seems they might have been initially synonymous, but as they're used in historical and anthropological senses they are not. Essentially millenarianism I think is used now, in the senses I meant, as something more like it's original root. It describes those who believe an age will come when either tremendous things will be revealed or utopian conditions will be achieved. To give a non-religious example some of the Singulatiarianism thinkers are essentially millenarian. They are likely not millenialist in any normal sense though.--T. Anthony 12:37, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

The terms millennialism and millenarianism did not start out as synonymns, they actually come from different root words. Gould examines the language issue and the difference between "millenarian" groups and "millennial" expectation. Stephen Jay Gould, Questioning the Millennium: A Rationalist's Guide to a Precisely Arbitrary Countdown, (New York: Harmony Books, 1997). Many writers have conflated the terms, but in an encyclopedia, precision matters.--Cberlet 13:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Boxers

Should the Boxers be included in the list on this page? Picaroon9288 22:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Make an argument. It is worth considering seriously. Thanks for bringing it up.--Cberlet 23:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, here
  • In favor of the Boxers being Millenarianists:
  1. They were in favor of a radical change in society (expelling the foreigners and eliminating the Chinese Christians).
  2. They claimed to be backed by a metaphysical force (according to the group, Manchu China was being punished with bad harvests by Yu Ti, but would recieve a good harvest again after the foreigners were gone).
  3. They saw their country as being controlled by demons (the "foreign devils", aka foreigners)
  • Against that categorization:
  1. As opposed to having a new sort of society, they really only wanted to bring back an old one (1750, maybe, when China was soveriegn, powerful, and free of opium)

I argued for both sides, just to be fair. So, should the Righteous Harmony Society join the list? Picaroon9288 02:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Alas, the criteria for inclusion would be finding a published source that says a particular group was millenarian, millennial, or apocalyptic.--Cberlet 02:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nazies?

The Nazi Party used the terms Drittes Reich and Tausendjähriges Reich ("Thousand-Year Empire") in order to connect the new German Empire they wished to forge to the ones of old (the Holy Roman Empire, known as the First Reich, and the Second German Empire or Second Reich) while alluding to envisioned future prosperity and the nation's alleged destiny. Third_Reich

[edit] Transhumanist/Singularitarian?

Neither of these claim that there will be great changes on any millenial basis.

Hopefully the links can be removed soon as it portrays them in somewhat of a negative light in my opinion.

[edit] Etymology of millenarianism

Hi, interesting article, I just wondered if someone could add where the word comes from. Was it someone's name, or something? Sorry if it is there, but if so I missed it, maybe it could be more pronounced? Lay man opinion, thanks.