Talk:Midwestern United States/Archive 1

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This page should be deleted because it cipies another page Can anyone explain to me where the fact about church attendance came from?

Answer:

In order to be annoying, I know that someone added these facts to try and include and mislead people into grouping parts of PA into the midwest. Since it was added just to annoy my wife, I will refrain from altering this information and allow an unbiased contributor to change the content.

"In fact, religious attendance is lowest in the United States in the Industrialized Midwest and in the Southeast, and highest in coastal cities like Boston, New York, and Los Angeles" I really think if you are going to quote statistics like this you should include a source.

I deleted the section: Southern areas of Missouri with more affinity to the American South may also not consider themselves Midwestern.

As I am unsure what the writer is referring to unless he is referring to some rural areas. Even there, I do not think that the majority thinks of itself as southern. At least that was my experience growing up in and around Springfield, Missouri. It was rare to come across anyone who thought of Missouri as part of the south. Basically, southern missouri is way to broad in my experience. User:sfmontyo

I'm pretty sure that I based that on something that I read in Missouri, which doesn't seem to be there now. So I gladly defer to you as somebody that would know what they were talking about. (Plus, there's a Missourian in the room with me that agrees with you too.) -- Toby (a native Nebraskan) 23:27 Feb 5, 2003 (UTC)

I always thought of the Midwest as ending at the Mississippi River, and of the Plains states as constituting a region unto themselves. -Smack 00:32 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Minnesota (west of the Mississippi in part) considers itself "upper midwest") dml

Another question. I've never read Life on the Mississippi, but Huck Finn is better described as a Southern novel than a Midwestern novel. Life on the Mississippi is hardly famous. I say they should be removed from the article. -Smack 00:45 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think this caption is vague. If I didn't know where the US midwest is, I would have no idea what the "salmon-colored" section is... Describing a color as salmon seems like it may be confusing to some, since I think salmon have a fairly limited range. Surely there is some better way to say this. Tuf-Kat 05:50, Oct 2, 2003 (UTC)

I'm not sure what to do with a lot of the recent additions. Seems somewhat POV, but I find it hard to specify exactly why. For example:

Because the Northwest Ordinance region comprising the heart of the Midwest was the first large region of the United States which prohibited slavery (the Northeastern states emancipated slaves four decades into the 19th century), the region remains culturally apart from the country and proud of its free pioneer heritage. The regional southern boundary was the Ohio River, the border of freedom and slavery in American history and literature (See: Uncle Tom's Cabin, by Harriet Beecher Stowe; Beloved, by Toni Morrison).

Now, is it really accurate to say "the region remains culturally apart from the country and proud of its free pioneer heritage"? I've lived in the midwest my whole life and I don't especially feel "culturally apart from the country". But maybe that's just me. Even if it is accurate to say that, is it accurate to say the reason is because it was the first large region to prohibit slavery?

The recent additions are rife with such statements. While I agree that the role the midwest played as free states and with the Underground Railroad were an important part of the midwest's heritage, I don't see it as being the central defining characteristic. I started doing some edits, but I don't have the time to really think through all the ramifications. I'm going to add this to Wikipedia:Cleanup to request additional eyes to look at this. Bkonrad | Talk 14:01, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think it's fair to say that the Midwest often feels overlooked because of heavy biases toward the coasts, though I imagine every place outside the East- and West-coast megalopoli feels a bit cheated from time to time. Anyway, it's flyover country.
One thing is that the midwest actually turns out to have been fairly racist from time to time (MLK once said that areas around Chicago were practically worse than many regions in the South). Okay, so I'm basically just saying, yes, this article needs cleanup… —Mulad 17:32, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what I'm doing, but I just wanted to let someone know that in the table of Midwest cities, Minnesota's state abbreviation is listed as MI and it should be MN. It links to the correct page, but is just used incorrectly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.215.251.51 (talk) 21:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)



When I recognize blatantly incorrect information carelessly offered as "fact" - especially when accurate information is so readily available - I tend to worry about the validity of the parts I DON'T know anything about. The breakdown of religions in the Midwest is just wrong: someone needs a refresher in Comparative Religion. For those who'd rather do without it, here's an example. There are 140 Catholic Churches in Detroit. There are over 1300 Protestant Churches of which almost 600 are Baptist. You will find the same ratio virtually everywhere in the Midwest: it is overwhelmingly Protestant. Now, for those who are interested, here's a rant. I'm not a religous zealot although this does happen to be my field: I'm just tired of inaccurate internet material in general.(Someone will probably delete everything that follows - please leave this first part, O.K.?)

CHRISTIANITY is a RELIGION, not a denomination (Religions that are NOT Christian include Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hindi, Shintoism and Daoism: but I digress) The MAIN BRANCHES of CHRSTIANITY are: Roman Catholicism; Greek Orthodoxy; Russian Orthodoxy and PROTESTANTISM. The doctrine of Roman Catholicism does not allow DENOMINATIONS: the Pope is the head of the Church and the Church is governed through one hierarchy. Should a particular parish openly deviate from that universal doctrine, it would find itself in trouble with the Vatican. PROTESTANTISM is a BRANCH of CHRISTIANITY. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as anything but a nice guy; they don't believe priests can absolve sin; they allow their ministers to marry; they recognize only Baptism and Holy Communion as Sacraments (marraige is a "Holy Covenant"); they do not pray to Saints and, in general, they tend not to take a stand on issues such as divorce and remarraige; premarital sex or abortion..(There are exceptions: Evangelical Fundamentalists; Pentacostals: "Holy Rollers" or "Born-agains" are all - technically - Protestants. But they are extremely conservative and actively oppose abortion; discourage divorce, and condemn interpretation of the Bible. Also, they tend to refer to themselves only as "Christians" - regardless of the name of their church - and most generally believe that THEY are the only "real" Christians. Old Order Amish; Mennonites; Exclusive Brethren; Open Brethren; Christian Brethern; etc. are all - technically - Protestant demonimations. But they are non-evangelical fundamentalists who keep themselves separate from all other religions - Christian or not - because they view the world as wicked and material. The doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints (Mormons) does overlap with contemporary Protestantism, but also differs significantly. They believe their founder, Joseph Smith, received revelations directly from God. "Mainstream" / "Contemporary" PROTESTANTISM is divided into many DENOMONATIONS: Baptists, Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Anglicans -: there are many. For the most part, they differ only in matters of church organization and leadership: they are much more alike than they are different. Exceptions: Baptists believe candidates for baptism must have reached the Age of Reason - I believe around 12 or 13 for them - so they don't baptize babies) Also, baptism must be by immersion in a tank (which is located to one side of the alter and out of view when not in use) - and not annointment from a font. Other errors in this article: Congregationalism is a New England phenomonon. Yes, there are surely Congretational Churches in the Midwest (11 out of over 1300 in Detroit) but it is far from a major presence. "Calvinism" refers to John Calvin who, during the Reformation -which took place in 16th century EUROPE - believed Martin Luther's new doctrines to be TOO LIBERAL. His followers became "Calvinists". There are Modern Calvinists worldwide but as formal, organized congregations with their own churches, they are rare in the U.S. (2 out of over 1300 in Detroit) Yes: some churches in some Protestant denominations are "Calvinistic" in their beliefs - some Baptist churches and virtually all Fundamentalists - but the inclusion of the term in this article is misleading and confusing. That said: the Midwest is OVERWHELMINGLY PROTESTANT - close to 70% - which just about anyone who knows anything about America's immigrants knows. Germans, Scandanavians? Virtually all Protestant - mostly Lutheran. Large urban Black populations: virtually all Baptist. The Catholic French-Canadian immigrants of the late 19th century settled primarily in New England mill towns - and not many Roman Catholic Italians and Spaniards made a beeline for 19th century Ohio or Indiana. Rant finished! 69.177.233.124 (talk) 12:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

"Midwest" will always be somewhat vague

There's nothing "Western" about Ohio anymore and it is well to the east of a majority of the states of the U.S. but will always be deemed "Midwestern" due to the Northwest Ordinance. However, a few years ago I read where a particularly dominant University of Kentucky Wildcats basketball teams was dubbed the "Monsters of the Midwest". I know that's a play on the old Chicago Bears, the "Monsters of the Midway", but then I thought, well, only seventy miles or so north of Lexington is the very Midwestern-feeling Kentucky suburbs of Cincinnati, although to me nowhere is much more stereotypcially Southern than Lexington (except for its climate), with all of the whiskey distillation, horse farms, and tobacco raising in the area. Louisville, too, is somewhat Midwestern with its frequent Knights of Columbus halls, and much faster pace of life than rural Kentucky or much of the rest of the South; not for nothing is the tourism motto of Bullitt County, the next county due south of Louisville, "Where the real South begins". Northwest Tennessee has much more of the landforms of the Midwest than what one generally associates with that state, but the culture in most ways seems determinedly Southern. Oklahoma is quite Midwestern in many ways: Tulsa has at least as much of a Midwestern feel to it as it does Southern, and certainly, oil companies to the contrary, hardly feels Southwestern at all. "Midwest" will in some ways always mean just what the speaker wants it to mean. Rlquall 20:06, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think we have to consider that there is a prejudice in the United States with people who are culturally Southern. See Southern United States under "Lifestyle". We've seen nomenclature changes before in cultural groups who wish to distance themselves from stereotypes.

--ScottyFLL 20:29, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see much difference between suburban Cincinnati and Lexington. Tobacco and whisky are produced even across the river into such Ohio counties as Brown County, and the AQHA's horse show for the region is held not in Lexington nor even Louisville, but Columbus. Agriculture doesn't really change in the seventy miles between Lexington and Cincinnati; it's not until you get north of Dayton that you see the archetypically Midwestern crop farms. And let us not forget the water tower in the Cincy suburb of Florence, Kentucky stating, in the plaintive Southern tradition, "Welcome to Florence, y'all." Of course, all this just goes to show that "Midwest" is largely a subjective term, as you've said. -- SwissCelt 05:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

The football fight song of The University of Michigan goes, "Hail, hail, Michigan, the champions of the West." Those of us who actually LIVE in the West have to chuckle. RickK 20:41, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Well, Michigan was in the West (well, sort of) back when Hail to the Victors was written. Also, not to start an edit war, but to the anonymous recent editor: "Scots-Irish" is equally acceptable as "Scotch-Irish", just as "Scots whisky" is almost as acceptable as "Scotch Whisky". Rlquall 22:24, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That line in The Victors is actually a reference to the Big Ten Conference, which was originally nicknamed the "Western Conference" (as the only other conference existing at the time was a league of East Coast schools). The song was written by student Louis Elbel after a last-second victory over Chicago that clinched the 1898 Western Conference title. Funnyhat 06:52, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Two points, briefly

1)Let's try to add new threads to the bottom, not the top of talk pages, so that the thing makes logical sense to someone trying to read it from start to finish. 2)Let's all try to sign our posts, regardless of how good and right we think that they are.

Rlquall 05:33, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't much care for the wording "very liberal liberal arts colleges" even though I know that political liberalism and "liberal" in the sense of liberal arts are two diffent things and that the sentence is largely correct in that all of the liberal arts colleges listed are also politicallly liberal. It just sounds confusing. I'm less pleased with the idea about "mixing of Protestantism and Calvinism". That to me is like saying "a mixture of wine and Merlot". Calvin was a Protestant, Calvinism is a species of Protestantism. Rlquall 23:24, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

the term midwest is rather confusing. it's obviously a completely separate area from what's called the west. Gringo300 02:45, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Yeah, that's why it's not called "the west"; it's called "the midwest". Granted, it's a bad name for the region, but that's not for us to decide. That's what it's called. Tverbeek 03:06, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nice revised map - but...

...the inclusion of West Virginia and Kentucky as peripherally Midwestern in cultural character seems like stretching the definitions a bit, even if there may be a great deal of commuting and other economic ties across the Ohio River. //Big Adamsky 17:09, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Kentucky I would have to agree with. It may be on the edge of the South, but historically and culturally it most certainly *is* part of the South. Northern Kentucky on the Ohio River near Cincinnati is quite Midwestern, but the other 95% of the state is very clearly Southern. So in that case I would have to agree that Kentucky should not be included in this defintion West Virgina on the other hand is a more difficult issue. Culturally it's a mix of Southern, Midwestern and Northeastern -- particularly in terms of it's industrial culture that has many similarities to neighboring Pennsylvania (which is unquestionably Northeastern). Unlike Kentucky, however, West Virgina is historically not part of the South. On the other hand it doesn't fit very well under the definition of Midwestern nor Northeastern either. The point being, West Virginia is literally the location where the three major regions east of the Mississippi come together and this makes it very different to identify it with one region or another. As a result I would consider it a border state -- particularly between the Midwest and the South. { stereoisomer 4:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC) }
All these people are claiming parts of Kentucky and West Virginia as "Midwest". Personally, I don't see it... not at all. I think the confusion comes in thinking of Ohio as culturally homogenous, which it isn't. One need only compare the areas around Ohio University, Youngstown State University, and Bowling Green State University to learn the differences in culture within the state of Ohio. The three campuses compare more favorably to the University of Tennessee (at Knoxville), the University at Buffalo, and Iowa State University (respectively) than to one another. Accordingly, the parts of Ohio bordering Kentucky and West Virginia are much more Appalachian in nature (or "Southern", although this is itself a misnomer when applied to the region) than Midwestern. -- SwissCelt 05:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
The confusion doesn't come from thinking Ohio is culturally homogenous -- not in my case anyway. I've lived her almost my entire life (and in all four corners of the state and Columbus as well) and I'm well aware of Ohio's variety of culture. Honestly, I don't think there's more than a few states in the entire nation that are culturally homogenous (maybe none at all, in fact). With that said, the claim that regions along the Ohio River are more Appalachian or Southern in nature is, well, quite ridiculous. Much of those regions are definitively Midwestern as are much of the regions immeadiately across the Ohio River in Kentucky. For example, cities like Florence, KY and Portsmouth, OH are virtually indistinquishable from any number of other cities further north (e.g. Middletown, Piqua, Lima, Findlay). However, I would agree that West Virginia is not Midwestern and that some of the regions that border it in Ohio have a fair amount of its Appalachian flavor -- but in addition to their overall Midwestern flavor. -- Stereoisomer 19:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy I'm not the only who thought it strange to include West Virginia and Kentucky in the Midwest. I lived in Ketucky for 2 years, and even the extreme north, which most locals seem to consider to be more Midwestern than southern in culture, still seemed "southern" to me, someone born and raised in Chicagoland. Its all relative to a point, but too much of a stretch to say that Kentucky and West Virginia are midwestern. Kemet 23 February 2006

St. Louis or Cincinnati are not the definiton of Midwestern cities as they are too often considered to have a strong Southern inflence and are the cities Louisville is compared to when some people categorize it as the Midwest (Cincinnai more than St. Louis; St. Louis got there Southern vibe from the black Migration to the North). Cincinnati as called by residence of upper Ohio Cincinatucky is obviously more mix of Southern and Midwestern. Louisville is more of a boom town to all, But maybe 5 Midwestern cities when it comes to population growth. Also Louisville is growing faster than New Orleans (post Katrina) and just about every major Louisiana, Alabama, and mississippi cities.

The fact is that Louisville has much more Culturally, Historically, and Architecturally in common with Memphis than St. Louis. Afterall most people view Louisville as a Southern city. Louisville was (back in the 19th century) actually defined as the manufacturing Captial of the South and the Gateway city to the South. Due to Louisville's location on the Ohio, which helped it to attract to Industry to the area just like other Southern River cities suchas Memphis and New Orleans and even non river cities like Birmingham. Louisville's title as the manufacturing Capital of the South also came into play when the L&N (Louisville and Nashville) (there was no L&C; Louisville and Chicago) was constructed that connected Louisville to Nashville and further South to Atlanta. Louisville also had one of the largest slave owning populations (there were no slaves in the North except for the southern edge of Missouri) in the country (even though it was just across the river from a free state) which was just a reflection of it's state which had the 3rd largest slave population after (Virginia and Georgia). During the Civil War Louisville was constently under question by the North for aiding the Confederacy, and was by no means trusted by the North. To this day a Confederate monument stands in the City's first suburb Old Louisville. Also unlike Midwestern cities Louisville does not have a sigifigant population of Eastern and Southern Europeans (from places like Poland and Hungary) that came during a European Migration period (WWII). Even small Midwestern cities like South Bend and Toledo received a substantial number of immigrants from those areas of the world.

Archtiecturally Louisville's first suburb Old Louisville with it's wrought iron, huge fountains, huge Magnolias looming over the streets and Victorian style architecture that are found only in the most prominent Southern cities of the 19th century like Charleston, New Orleans, Savanah, and even Richmond, NOWHERE in the Midwest. Also Louisville like New Orleans urban areas (at least in the West or older parts of town) are lined with Shotgun houses destintively Southern, found mostly in cities like New Orleans.

Culturally Louisville is much much more of a Southern city than Midwestern, Like i've said earlier if you compare louisville's Culture, History, and Architecture to that of New Orleans and Birmingham (2 Deep Southern cities) and then compare it to that of Minnianapolis and Milwaulkee (2 upper Midwestern cities) Louisville undoubtibly has 3x more in common with the Southern cities.

KNOW LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY IS WILL AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SOUTH!!!!

Kansas should not be considered peripherial. Nearly every survey I've seen has put that state as the heart of the region. James Shortridge's "The Middle West" It s Meaning in American Culture is a good read for that. Great Lakes states are not the only Midwestern states.

All the data here regarding Cincinnati is highly questionable. Cincinnati has virtually nothing in common with Southern culture or identity and is indeed definitive of a Midwestern city. Cincinnati most closely identifies with Chicago due to it's history of similar businesses, industries and culture. If any city in the region is a hybrid of Midwestern and Southern, then it is indeed Louisville. Cincinnati and Louisville are often compared because of a) their proximity, b) they're Ohio River cities, and c) they're approximately the same size. But that's where the simalarities end. Everything south of the Ohio River is distinctly different than what lies to the north. Even driving 15-30 minutes south of Cincinnati into Northern Kentucky will yield a cultural experience significantly different (e.g. attitudes, accents, entertainment) than that of downtown or suburban Cincinnati. Furthermore, the term 'Cincinatucky' is flat out bogus. My family has lived in Ohio (specifically Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland) for over 150 years, I've lived her almost all my life and I, nor anyone else I know, has ever used the word "Cincinatucky" or seen it in print anywhere in Ohio or the surrounding region. -- Stereoisomer 00:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually in Cleveland, we generally consider Cincinnati to be part of Kentucky. Unlike the focus of much of this dialogue (Midwest vs. South), Cleveland is a mix of Midwest and Northeastern (generally divided by the Cuyahoga River) due to the original immigrants settling the two cities of Cleveland (primarily settled by New Englanders) and Ohio City (primarily settled by Appalachians). I view Cleveland as one-half Hartford (on the East Side) and one-half Cincinnati (on the West Side). That said, I agree that no one, in their right mind, views WV and Kentucky as "Midwestern". It seems to me that "Midwest" is comprised of the Great Lakes States (primarily the Old Northwest Territory) and some portion of the eastern Plains States (I believe Missouri and Iowa are Midwestern, but it probably doesn't go farther west than Mississippi and Missouri River states). In sum, all of the fringe areas of any region will share some influence from and characteristics of their neighbors. That should suggest neither exclusion of the fringes nor inclusion of the neighbors. Mayor Pez 04:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

While I think you made a lot of accurate statements here, particularly equating the Midwest with the Old Northwest Territory, 99.9% of Cleveland doesn't agree with you regarding Cincinnati being part of Kentucky. I've lived in Cincinnati and Cleveland both for several years and I never once heard anything as ludicrous as Cincinnati being equated with Kentucky. -- Stereoisomer 19:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

"Midwest" and "Heartland" used synonymously?

I've noticed this article (and others) refer to the two as if they overlap considerably when in fact they are two very distinct regions. It has always been my understanding that the Midwest is essentially the states that lie north of the Ohio River, south of the Great Lakes, west of the Northeastern states (New England, etc.) and east of the Mississippi River. The Heartland, on the other hand, is the states that lie East of the Rocky Mountains and west of the Mississippi River. With the possible exception of Texas which is so large that, depending on what part of the state you're in, you can experience distinctly Southern, Southwestern or Heartland culture.

For example (and I realize this isn't citable information), I was raised in and currently live in Ohio and it is unheard of around here to refer to this region as the Heartland. In addition, I have a large chunk of family in Oklahoma and it is unheard of out there to refer to that region as the Midwest. On the other hand I have another large chunk of family in Illinois where Chicago area people refer to the region as the Midwest, whereas those south of Peoria commonly refer to the region as the Heartland. The point being, there is most definitely some overlap (which is to be expected), but essentially the two terms are *not* interchangable. { stereoisomer 4:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC) }

The "heart" of something is its center. It is not bound by man-made geographic boundaries nor by culture. If you look at a map of the U.S., what is referred to as the Heartland is just where you'd expect it to be, and would include much of what we also call the "Breadbasket". It would not include the Chicagoland area, but southern Illinois would definitely fit.
There is almost always going to be overlap when we deal with "regions". New York could be considered Eastern, Mid-Atlantic, Northeastern, in relation to the rest of the country.

--ScottyFLL 20:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to disambiguate this section a little bit, and moderated the strong point of view to a more inclusionary tone. It still needs work, but at the very least it now recognizes the fact that the Midwest is different things to different people.

Disamibiging page

This page was disambiguadted from a region in Australia by Silsor and moved to Midwest region of the United States . Under WikiProject U.S. regions' naming conventions it should be at Midwest (United States), if disambiged, and Midwest if not. I had nothing to do with deciding to disambig the page I'm simply placing the now disambiged page at the title it should be at. Please do not direct comments or complaints about the disambig about the page at me. Thanks. -JCarriker 11:45, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

I'd personally prefer a disambiguation page on Midwest, as the term is generalistic enough that even though people are most likely to be searching for the United States region, it wouldn't hurt them to have to click through a disambig page. Just running all other midwestern regions through the US page strikes me as being a bit too centric on the English-speaking northern hemisphere. --54x 12:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Dispute?

Um... can someone tell me what's disputed here? The only "issue" I can see appears to be a difference opinion about markup, and which of two substantially-equivalent maps to use. Tverbeek 00:33, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. regions. Thryduulf 12:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

College listings

Could we just do away with all college listings in the Culture section? It's getting to be a bit ridiculous; every user who reads this page wants to add their alma mater to the state. Unless we have some strict guidelines about what colleges we list, the listing is useless. --BaronLarf 15:36, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

I know I'm reviving this topic from the dead, but I'm coming to agree with Larf. The college section is becoming unmanagable. Every 400 person independent school is being listed here. I'm as guilty as anyone is of bloating it (I added my alma mater, though it is the US News & World Report #2 Midwest school), but maybe we should just leave the references to uncontested powerhouses like Notre Dame, Chicago, and Northwestern and remove the rest. Craig R. Nielsen 02:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah the information is redundant, let the individual state articles take care of this kind of thing. Since we obviously can't list all the schools and ranking them by importance is by nature POV, let's just strike the whole section. Grey Wanderer | Talk 23:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree at most mention one can include a few schools ie. Northwestern, Chicago, Washington U, but other than that just remove the whole section. - thank you Astuishin 04:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I see this monstrous list of colleges has re-emerged it seems completly out of place, and in my view should simply be removed. So longer as there is even a section on colleges in this page, I'm afraid the temptation for wiki-boosterism will be to difficult to resist. - thank you Astuishin (talk) 10:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Just about the only editing that happens to that section is rearranging the order of the colleges and changing the pictures. Let's wait a few more days to get more input, but I think it should be removed (again,) and a link added to the main list of colleges in America (this.) --Confiteordeo 21:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Seems like no other users object, I think we should go ahead and replace the list with the link.- thank you Astuishin (talk) 14:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Done. --Confiteordeo 19:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Walter Mondale

It may be worth mentioning that Minnesota, as the only state that voted for Walter Mondale in 1984, is Mondale's home state. That's not to say that Minnesota doesn't tend to be strongly "blue", but my impression is that the home-state thing had a lot to do with it that year. TishaStacey 18:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC) (forever an Iowan)

Colours and appearance

I have made a proposal to change the colour of the map box, please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. regions --Qirex 05:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)