Talk:Midkemia
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Should the topic 'inspiration' not be moved to the 'Raymond E. Feist' page? It seems more logic to me. User:Elminster
- Makes sense to me. Also, please sign your messages. Wouter Lievens 11:06, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
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- done ;) User:Elminster
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- In further regards to the Inspiration section, it says, and I quote, "Several of his books are based on campaign logs, and most of the main characters are "player characters" from these Friday Nighter sessions. His later works incorporate less of the original Friday Nighter setting." - to the best of my knowledge this information is far from correct. The original Friday Nighters campaigns were set over 500 years after the first Riftwar books, thus, if anything, his latter words would incorporate more of their sessions (though by no means am I suggesting that to be the case). I've added a citation request for the initial statement and feel the latter half of the remark should be deleted altogether, as it's merely conjecture. User: Big Al 11:18, 28th February, 2008
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For anyone looking for Feist's actual words on Tolkien, check the Feistfans Mailing list. Here's some examples:
ate: Wed, 29 May 1996 07:32:15 -0800 From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@inet1.inetworld.net> Subject: Re: ROAMP
<lots of snippage>
It would be silly to argue Tolkien wasn't an influence on the field, but he wasn't much of one on me. More of what I do is owed to the adventure writers, Sabatini, Doyle (his non-Sherlock Homes stuff), Scott, Stevenson, and the historical novelists, notably Thomas Costain, Samuel Shellenbarger, and Mary Renault. As far as fantasy authors, Fritz Leiber was at the head of that class, followed by Mike Moorecock and E.R. Boroughs as far as things that left an impression.
I did, however, find Tolkien very entertaining. <g>
As far as Tolkie being "first," remember one of my axioms: the universe didn't evolve in the order you discovered it. Tolkien followed Lord Dunsany and others. His roots were in Gotho-Germanic myth, but you have to give him points for making the first fantasy "modern novel," which is quite a landmark.
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 07:58:22 -0700 From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@BITTERSEA.COM> Subject: Re: Origin of names
Actually, I kludged that word from two words I found in thee Similirion, "Val"
power (and I believe that's one JRRT cribbed from the Latin, and "huru"
Lord, so it literrally means "Power Lord."
And the Biggie:
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 20:14:01 -0700 From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@BITTERSEA.COM> Subject: Re: Magician review in Dutch newspaper
Let me disagree about that "most fantasy authors owe far more of a debt to Tolkien than most moviemakers to Orson Welles."
The ONLY fantasy writer working today who is an "out of Tolkein" sort is Terry Brooks in his Shanara stuff, and only because the not-too-light touch of Lester del Rey was all over that first book.
"Tolkien" is a marketing word. It was first slapped all over Stephen R. Donaldson's stuff with some very "Tolkien-esque" cover art when they launched his Illearth War series.
That was very consciously done to lure Tolkien fans to pick up the book and give it a chance, even thought Lester and Judy-Lynn knew full well that Donaldson has about as much to do with Tolkien as bagpipes do with jazz bands.
Of all the writers I list as influences, Tolkien is way down the list, for a couple of reasons. Stylistically he was very much a product of a 19th Century education. He wrote in the same vein as James Fennemore Cooper and Sir Walter Scott, not the early 20th Century writers. His prose is styled to be read aloud. Modern readers don't enjoy that style much, and it's a testimony to how good he was at it that people today are still discovering his books and enjoying them. But the number of readers on THIS list who say, "I just don't enjoy it," shows that bias. If I tried writing like that it would not be very good Feist, and it would certainly be even worse Tolkien.
The elements of Tolkien I did inherit came to me via the game world of Midkemia, hence I've had to put a lot of work into making my elves very unlike his, make my Elvandar a great deal more down-to-earth than Lothlorien, despite the obvious similarities "magic tree place full of elves." Tolkiens elves are a heck of a lot more angel-like and mine are a lot more mortal.
Most of my influences are non-fantasy, being "adventure" writers like the Dumas (father and son), Sabatini, Pyle, Doyle, Hope-Hopkins, Scott, Stevenson, Twain, Cooper, and the historical novelists like Sutcliff, Renault, Shellenbarger, Costain, and others. Of those fantasy writers I consider influences, I'd list Fritz Lieber number one, with Rodger Zelesney, A. Merit, H. P. Lovecraft, and Poul Anderson all having more influence on me than Tolkein. There's more of Fafered and the Grey Mouser, Lord of Light, The Ship of Istar, and Operation Chaos in my work than Lord of the Rings.
So, "Tolkien" is a product of the marketing department in most publishers. Reviewers, at least the 90% are crud bunch, buy into that nonsense without any critical thought on their own part.
--- REF's own comments notwithstanding, one cannot avid noticing that the names of the elves have a certain Tolkienesque quality. Here are some words from JRRT's Quenya and Sindarin languages:
Elda (Q) : High-elf; El (S): Star; Morn (S) : Dark; Glam (S) : Barbarous; Edhel (S) : Elf; Aglar (S) : Glory, brilliance.
Although I agree there is little similarity between the two types of elves, using Sindarin and Quenya names for his elves is not conductive to "making [his] elves vey unlike [Tolkien's]". He even preserved the distinction between Quenya being spoken by the elves of Valinor and Sindarin by those of Beleriand. Hinakana
[edit] Sources?
The writer of this article put down a lot of 'this kingdom is based on this such-and-such historical precedent' without citing any sources. I don't seen much similarity between Queg and Ancient Rome at all, for example, so unless REF at one point said, "Yes, Queg was based on Ancient Rome," then it's an opinion, not a fact, and should be removed, along with all similar opinions.--Werthead 11:31, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
With regards to this, I have read several different interpretations on Feist's insparation for various cultures in Midkemia; if different interpretations are listed along with reference to the origin of those interpretations, the artice would attain some balance Monkeymox 09:45, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- The following is a direct quote from the author himself in response to the question of cultures/nations in his books and their earthen counterpart.
> From: raymond@cts.com (Raymond E. Feist) > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:03:23 -0800 > Subject: Re: Ever annoying news! Well, it's an easy way to give familiar references without getting really convoluted about it. Assume the Kingdom is really like 17th Century France (about the time of Louis 13th) in the East. In the west, it's a lot more like England of roughly the same time. The Far Coast has a mind-set a lot like frontier America or 19th Century Australia. Bas-Tyra is very French. Assume the "King's Tongue" is a linqua franca, which literally meant "language of the Franks," or "French" during the early Crusades. It's a bastard tongue which includes both eastern and western dialects. But the "pure" language of "Bas-Tyra," is "French." Rodez is Spanish. Ran is something akin to Flemish/Dutch. Salador is a very cosmopolitan city that is very international. Krondor somewhat less so. Darkmoor is obviously German in language but very French in culture, or at the least Alsasian. The Free Cities is very Lebanese/Jewish (think of Beruit and Jerusalem before they got bombed to hell), trading centers much like those ancient eastern Mediterranean city states of old. Oueg is Rome as an Island Nation, with Imperial Romans as nobles, Italians as peasants. The Jal-Pur is Arabic, and Kesh is a mix of many nations: Isalani is China, there's some other eastern cultures, as well as the Brijainers who are essentially Vikings, the Ashuta who are essentially Cheyenne (with a very different attitude toward women), and the "Pure Blood" themselves are a mix between Egyptians and Pathians. That's off the top of my head. I probably have missed a few others.
- Hope that settles the issue. User: Big Al 11:22, 28th February, 2008
