Talk:Microsoft Access

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Microsoft Access talk page...

[edit] COMBINE THIS ARTICLE Microsoft_access with article Microsoft_Access?

FOLDOC article:Microsoft Access
1. <database> A relational database running under Microsoft Windows. Data is stored as a number of "tables", e.g. "Stock". Each table consists of a number of "records" (e.g. for different items) and each record contains a number of "fields", e.g. "Product code", "Supplier", "Quantity in stock". Access allows the user to create "forms" and "reports". A form shows one record in a user-designed format and allows the user to step through records one at a time. A report shows selected records in a user-designed format, possibly grouped into sections with different kinds of total (including sum, minimum, maximum, average).
There are also facilities to use links ("joins") between tables which share a common field and to filter records according to certain criteria or search for particular field values.
Version: 2 (date?).
Usenet newsgroup: comp.databases.ms-access.

What kind of licensing is needed to be able to use the Microsoft Access product and distribute the applications? In other words, what version of Microsoft Access does a developer need to buy in order to allow distribution of the runtime components without incurring any additional license fees per installation of the runtime? Bevo 22:56, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

As a developer you should have MS Access licenses, to distribute you can use the MS Access runtime libraries free of charge (within the limitations of the MS license). Wiki benguin 22:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Wiki_benguin

Lost link: The mvps link about access is dead... 404... :( Pfortuny 18:04, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sales pitch?

This article seems a little biased towards the product "Skilled software developers and data architects use it to develop powerful, complex application software. " does not match my experience - very few "Skilled software developers and data architects" of my aacquaintance would use Access for critical or complex applications preferring the flexibility, openness and robustness of other tool, in fact power and complexity are where Access falls down its strengths are relative ease of use and shallow learning curve

[edit] rebuttal

I create very large Access apps because it is flexible and I can produce an database app in a signicantly shorter period of time than any other tool. If robustness is required then I can use a database engine for the data such as SQL Server or others. I assure you my apps have lots of power and are quite complex. Tony Toews, tony@granite.ab.ca

[edit] second rebuttal

I agree wholeheartedly with Tony. We have built a number of software products for Fortune 500 companies using MS Access. We have worked with Honeywell and they use MS Access to build software front ends to either Jet 4.0, SQL Server or Oracle backends data table schemas... As do a lot of large companies that want very creative flexible software applications that they cannot buy off the shelf...since most will not fit or do exactly what they want...

MS Access is extrememly powerful in what it can accomplish as a front end software programming toolkit (its also nice that MS Access also gives away a small but powerful database engine too... Jet 4.0... in its tools too)... support@enflow.com

[edit] un-rebuttal

Whilst Access has some lovely little wizards for quick deployment, these prove to be very limiting when a client starts making demands beyond the simple .... and the jet database is only adequate for small numbers of people. It's a great stepping stone, but it really isn't scalable.

Once a coder learns how to use a tool like visual studio, .net, even swing or whatever, Access becomes an inefficient tool to knock out a solution.

I think the biggest problem is actually not at all a problem with Access, its the fact it is so accessible (no pun intended) and such a shallow learning curve. I'm frequently asked to 'fix' Access databases where the problem is that a person with little understanding of data, normalisation, best practise for documentation and methodology, etc can knock up a half-working system in an evening. Operative word being "half"

I shouldn't complain, fixing these badly conceived and poorly developed atrocities has given me a living for the last decade. I'm just left with the nagging feeling I should have been doing something more productive, not that it hasn't been lucrative. Wiki benguin 22:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)Wiki_Benguin

I would have to agree. I think the comment about skilled software developers using MS Access to develop application software is probably a tad misleading. In my opinion MS Access is a business programming tool, not a tool for IT professionals. When I worked in an IT department of a FTSE50 company we wouldn't touch MS Access with a bargepole. The business were free to get themselves into a right fankle using MS Access and Excel to cobble things together if they so desired, but if they asked us for a real business critical system then it would be built in something far more robust and (most importantly) maintainable than MS Access. We did have an MS Access system, built on the cheap by a contractor a number of years ago for a task only done twice a year. We couldn't make head nor tail of it and were in a position that if anything needed to be changed, or it went wrong (which it often did) we were in the situation where we had to spent days trying to fathom what the hell was wrong. Remember, it probably only took a couple of days to write in the first place! It almost came down to doing an emergency rewrite (in a more sensible system, obviously) at one point but we managed to find a backup and start again. Compare that with our core systems that might have been written decades ago but could be maintained and changed reasonably easily. Yes, you can build something quickly in Access, but the pain (and expense) will be felt by your successors in years to come. As for the sense of providing a relational database system for just anyone to play with, well I am sure anyone who even knows what a relational database is will know what you are likely to get!Ewan carmichael (talk) 00:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ease of Use?

This is claimed a few times in this article, though at one place the comment is made that "ease of use can be misleading". I have worked with computers for years and there is nothing "easy" about using Microsoft Access. I know several other people in the same boat. A secretary where I used to work had problems with it; she even went to a class and still had trouble with it. I have a book on Access, it, too, says Access is not an easy program to use. So far, the only Access file I have "sucessfully" created, was nothing more than a list of CDs I own, and I could have done that much more easily on Word! My point with this ranting? Is it correct POV to state the program is easy, when many people routinely avoid it because of its complexity?

--Rt66lt, August 22, 2005

In comparison to larger, enterprise level databases (MySQL, MS SQL, Oracle) which usually require writing your own front end, Access is much easier.--LucidGA 06:03, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, my limited use of Access finds Base easier to use. ~Linuxerist L / T 01:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Not if you're used to doing it by writting your own frontend! gorffy 05:38, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Microsoft Access and Java?

This section seems misplaced in terms of its technical detail, and as obvious bit of product placement as Pepsi in "the Goonies". I'd suggest either a generic section about interfacing with MS Access or getting rid.194.152.93.186 11:36, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that code snippet is really technical and seems out of place. An everyman user isn't likely to understand a word of that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.154.130.112 (talk • contribs) .

I'd like to see that moved into a page of it's own. Perhaps Microsoft_Access_ConnectionData or some other name indicating that it contains deeper technical details.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.177.235.245 (talk • contribs) .

I agree that it's really out of place and non-encyclopedic - the associated links are a little too esoteric and out of place for the rest of the article as well. Since no one has said anything in favor of the section over the last 45 days, I'm just going to drop the section. If you want to add a sub-page, you can grab the section back from history. Kuru ^talk 00:20, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] field properties

[edit] microsoft access

putting hyperlinks in memo fields

[edit] Screenshot

I think a better screenshot would be ideal as the current one doesn't appear to show much Medscin 17:49, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What really is access?

While typically veiwed as a RDMS, Access would be better described as a generic database frontend. For example the mdb file format is more a part of JET than Access, although access does store the fron-end materials (Macros, forms, querys, and reports). Access actually supports using systems other than JET as the backend. It is true that Access was definately designed with JET in mind, but that does not mean it requires JET.

Unfortunately people seem to be confused by this. For eaxmple this quote in the article

Unlike complete RDBMSes, it lacks database triggers and stored procedures. It does allow forms to contain code that is
triggered as changes are made to the underlying table, and it is common to use pass-through queries and other techniques in
Access to run stored procedures in RDBMSs that support these.

That really is about JET. JET does appear to lack stored procedures and triggers. However, Access does have some limited support for those when using other database backends, and the second part of that quote does indicate that.

It is a shame that people are so confused about this. Tacvek 17:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

It's viewed that way because that is how it's marketed - as a single product, and that's how most users will use it. The compatibility with other relational back ends is noted several other times in the article, so it's not a relevation that changes the article. You're 100% right, though. If that one factiod is your only concern - change it to "Unlike complete RDBMSes, the default Jet backend lacks...". Kuru ^talk 00:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Screenshot

I don't have a copy of Access (or Windows for that matter), so I cannot do this, but we need a new PNG screenshot. The JPEG one currently in use has too many artifacts. ~Linuxerist L / T 01:32, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Link

I have put a link in the external links area of MS Access http://www.enflow.com/WhyUseAccess.htm and it has been removed and i was wondering why my link was removed when it is non commercial and is a tutorial on Access.

Some, actually MANY of the other external links ARE commercial links but they persist yet mine was removed by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FayssalF ...

i was wondering how do i contact him and ask him why ... thanks...

cj_008@comcast.net

cj...

It is a commercial website. -- Szvest 09:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

A valid observation, but not a valid argument for removing a link. The content on the linked web page is exactly as it says it is...Why Use Access? Robertwharvey 00:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

The above user has left several messages on my talk page asking for more information on external linking at the Wikipedia. The applicable style guide is located at WP:EL; please read it. Here are my comments on the existing links:

Tutorials/tips:

Microsoft Access Articles and Tutorials

Around 274 topically defined,very detailed and illustrated tutorials. Ads on tutorial pages are around 1-2% of content - not objectionable.

More Access tutorials

40-50 tutorials, sample databases, and exercises. Illustrated and detailed. Small ads on each page. Two line prompt near top of page for non-html version of same data.

A FAQ site about Microsoft Access

Dev Ashish's help page; fixture in most Access circles. No ads I could see.

Microsoft Access for Beginners

Simple no-frills tutorials with illustrations and sample dbs. Link to author's resume on main page - nothing intrusive.

Forums:

Utter Access Forums

Heavy traffic forums. No real 3rd party ads I could see. Just got bookmarked.

Microsoft Access Newsgroups

Large set of forums. Seem to be named the same as the newsgroup forums - are these just an interface to newsgroups or original content?

Other:

Microsoft Access Linklist

Link directory of Access related topics. Most links seemed to be on topic.

Blog about Microsoft Access Tips and Tricks

Blog of access developer. Most entires are small; many are off-topic. Removed for now.

History of JET database

Short, one-page history of the Jet database from 1996. Probably more applicable to Microsoft Jet Database Engine. Added Jet to "See Also" and removed this link.

Additional info on history of Access

pointer to posting in google groups with more Jet history that is itself cribbed from "Jet DB Engine Programmer's Guide". Removed - should add to Microsoft Jet Database Engine if the content isn't covered there.

Access Opener utility manages multiple versions

Link to site promoting a very specific add-on/tool. It's free, but I'm not sure what value it adds to the article - which is the point of any link. Removed for now.

Summary: I'd prefer to see only one tutorial site and maybe the link to the directory so people can add their links to that. Ads in a comprehensive guide or tutorial or forum with content that cannot be added here are fine as long as they are not out of control. Again, as editors we should be adding content to the article; not pitching our products. Please feel free to add to the comments above and correct my assumptions about the content of the links. Kuru ^talk 00:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up the external links since it has been up for quite some times. I agree that only one tutorial link should be included. Inclusion of Microsoft Access for Beginners for Access starters. Forums have been removed. The actual Microsoft Access Newsgroup is found at Microsoft site and not pcreview.co.uk.Cocoma 16:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Unless the user who removed the Microsoft Access for Beginners external link can point to a Wikipedia policy prohibiting adding links to your own site, there is no valid reason why this link should be excluded from the article. This is a series of articles on a non-commercial site with minimal advertising. The information has been made available at no charge as have the repeated answers to questions from the many people who have e-mailed me after reading the articles. This link only serves to benefit those looking for further information and does not detract from the article in any way. Please cite the policy or leave the link alone. --Ajcomeau 22:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Control needs focus for programmatic access

You can't reference a property or method for a control unless the control has the focus.

This makes programming inconvenient, and may be a deliberate strategem of Microsoft to 'force' upgrade to VB or Visual Studio. There is no particular reason for this restriction; nothing in the inherent functionality of a form (at the systems level) that would require this. --Uncle Ed 17:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, that's incorrect. You can set, e.g. control.defaultvalue = k even if control doesn't have the focus

Controls don't need focus to set/get most properties, but there are a few, like the .Text property 68.47.9.211 12:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trouble understanding

I'm having some trouble understanding what "Office Access, previously known as Microsoft Access, is an active secure database embedded in a virtual object-oriented work cluster." means. Any help would be greatfull. --121.45.192.252 13:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It's because it's written in jargon. I've restore the previous lead in. If someone wants to rewrite the anonymous contribution to be understandable to a general audience looking for information on MSAccess, that would be great. Kuru ^talk 22:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Details?

There's lots of high-level perspective on Access here (it's good for X, bad at Y), but very little detail. Ideas to include would be descriptions of the basic types of objects like forms and reports, how they interconnect, the wizards, what's included in the different installations etc. Also, the different views (design, datasheet etc) and what they mean. Stevage 16:25, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Future of Access

It'd be great if we could add something about the future of Access. I was told Microsoft is hoping to phase out Access as a database format and repurpose it as a front-end and reporting tool for SQL Express. Foofy 15:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for listing file extensions

I started a segment on the file extensions that Access uses to save info. I came here expecting there to be some mention already, as I was looking for a Access Report a co-worker made, but I did not know what file name he used so I figured I'd just search under the file extension but didn't remember what it saved them under. There was nothing here so I added the segment. There is already a redirect here for .mdb but there was no mention of what .mdb was on the page before. Sometimes people find files on a system and they don't know what there use is for, so they search under the file extension name to find out.--64.62.66.146 15:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Data file format

I would be happy to read about the data file formats of MS Access. Also a summary about (free and non-free) softwares that can handle MDB file would be nice. --Gaborgulya 22:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Access 1 1 cover.jpg

Image:Access 1 1 cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stored Procedures and Triggers.

I've added stuff to the Features section to make it more correct.

In reading these notes, keep in mind that the term "Microsoft Access" means two different things to different people: (1) A part of MS Office Pro, and (2) The database engine accessed by the "Microsoft Access ODBC driver"

Most people think 'stored procedures' means procedures written in an SQL extension language that looks something like SQL, and stored in the database, so I don't want to get too far away from that.

Also, many people looking for stored procedures will be VB, MFC, and C++ developers: for them it is true that Access doesn't have stored procedures.

The critical difference is that non-Access clients can't get at the stored procedures, so for VB, MFC, and C++, Access does not have 'stored procedures', but for Access developers, Access does have 'stored procedures'. Of course this is 'advanced developer' stuff, so most Access users won't know about this either. However, it does fall within the meaning of the RDMS definitions: it's an embedded language in the RDB used for manipulating the RDB, and it's all stored in the RDB.

Access Basic, the RDB native language, was a native part of the Access Database system, even though VB was later developed from it. And VBA stored procedures can be called and executed through SQL, just like any other stored procedure. This is not a 'new' feature: it's been part of Access since at least version 2.

The notable new syntax for stored procedures in Access 2000/Jet 4.0 is a new syntax for creating (single-line SQL) stored procedures. The keyword 'procedure' was already there, and single-line stored procedures were already there. The keyword 'procedure' was not commonly used, but that's because then, as now, it was worthless. In Access 2000/Jet 4.0, the worthless keyword 'procedure' is retained inside the 'stored procedure' so when you look at the SQL, you can see the word 'procedure'.

BTW, there is another point that is of only historical interest: These single line Stored Procedures were historically the most common kind of stored procedure. Stored Procedures and Triggers were historically a work-around for the lack (in other RDBMS') of declarative referential integrity. So most stored procedures were one-liners, and most triggers were used to implement referential integrity. It's only after other RDBMS's got DRI that it became a common-place that triggers and stored procedures were those things you used to implement complex processes.

Triggers: again, the critical thing about Access triggers is not that they don't exist, but that they are non-standard and not usable by external clients. The "Microsoft Access ODBC driver" database system didn't implement triggers: it implemented DRI. The RDMS built in the database does implement triggers. In an article about Jet, it would be fair to say there were no triggers. In an article about Microsoft Access, it is fair to say that there is a limited, out-dated, non-standard technology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.166.15 (talk) 00:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Supported OSs - "Windows,Others"?

What others? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.60.125 (talk) 05:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

That depends on the version you choose. Obviously, not all versions will work with such windows-based OS like ReactOS. --76.201.144.238 (talk) 14:06, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:MS Office 2003 Access screenshot.PNG

Image:MS Office 2003 Access screenshot.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)