Talk:Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes from a Memory

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Contents

[edit] CNN News Report?

At the end of "Finally Free" when Nicolas has walked inside and the tv is on, I believe the news report is on CNN (I recognize the voice) about JFK Jr dying since it mentions Washington, a "member of American nobility," and " yet another tradegy in a long string of misfortunes." Since the CD was released in 2000 and JFK Jr died in 1999, it is possible that his death occured around the time of the CD's recording. I haven't visited any fan websites to see if this is true, but if anyone else agrees with my hypothesis I think it should be included in the track summaries. --22:47, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It is ... I heard this somewhere also. I think it was on the commentaries of the Scene from NY DVD --Pinnecco 15:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I also think it was in the DVD commentaries. They included the news report to tell the listeners that Nicholas' story happened in a recent past. Can anyone confirm this? --Paraiba 13:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comma?

A minor quibble: there is no comma in the name Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes from a Memory. Is there any way that can be changed? It just makes it somewhat annoying when trying to link to the page. --Durga2112 14:37, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I guess that's like how Ytse Jam is spelled with an accented e (Ytsé Jam) in the WDADU booklet, but noone pays any attention to it! plattopus (talk) 14:03, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Story

Why isn't the story here? Is it on another page that I missed? I'd think that any fan listening to SFAM who isn't quite sure who "the Sleeper" is or what happens at the end of the album would consult Wikipedia, only to find...nothing. Anyone have a plan to write a synopsis? - user:defunkt 23:57, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'd say the only reason it isn't here is because: 1) Noone has had the time to actually write it, and 2) There's so much debate about the story, that anyone contributing to this article would probably have to read a whole bunch of peoples' opinions in order to stay NPOV. Although having said that, yes I do plan at some stage in the future to provide a synopsis, but haven't got around to it. -- plattopusis this thing on? 03:19, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
Okay great, I'm looking forward to it. I didn't know that there was a debate about the story, so at least mentioning it and some of the contested points would be interesting to read. What I interpreted the story as seemed to line up with what the guys explain on the commentary of the SFAM DVD, but they obviously don't go over every detail. Great job on all the DT stuff, though. These pages are all really rad. - user:defunkt 19:53, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's not so much debate on the major points of the story (because, as you say, they're pretty clearly explained on the DVD), but it's more speculation about what wasn't explained. Although, there are a few people who still debate just "who" was reincarnated as "whom", have a look at the analysis of the story on DTFAQ.com (which currently has 58 comments, by far the most of any content on the FAQ) for an example of the kind of differences. It'll be a BIG task to do justice to all these theories. -- plattopusis this thing on? 17:40, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
Would this help? Maybe a brief summary of Mike Portnoy's own post on his website FAQ can be used. If we quote if from his site, http://www.mikeportnoy.com/about/mpfaq/showquestion.asp?menu=about&faq=1&fldAuto=404, that should avoid POV issues on our part, right? 198.203.175.175
Thanks much for the story, I've been really looking forward to reading it.
I'm sort of confused at the ending... where do we get that the Hypnotherapist is Ed's reincarnated soul, and has killed Nicholas?

So the story section appears to have been copied from [1]. Do we have permission of the original author to use it on wikipedia? --asqueella 01:11, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

  • It does seem to be a rip off (or maybe dtfaq copied wikipedia), but the current language is inadequate for wikipedia -- too much use of first person and constructions like "next we read". I remember editing this text on wikipedia some time ago. If it is actually the same on DT FAQ, then DT FAQ (re)borrowed from wikipedia without atribution. In the next few days I'll work on this text so it will be better, a bit shorter, and different fomr the DT FAQ one. Fbergo (talk) 00:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Full title

Hey, does anyone else think that the title of this article should be "Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes from a Memory" I know that on the CD spine only the title "Scenes from a Memory" is shown, and that on the front of the album "Scenes from a Memory" is in bold while "Metropolis Pt. 2" is not... So my question is, does anyone else think the article should be changed to reflect the full album title? Just a thought. (Drlecter491 08:01, 29 January 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Story Ending?

At the end of the story should it really be stated that the hypno kills Nicholas? No one really knows if he does or not...just a thought since nothing ever comes out and says it happens that way...

Actually in Metropolis 2000, the face of The Miracle is clearly shown when the hypno kills Nicholas.

What? That makes no sense. The hypnotherapist has a very calm voice, not that of a killer.. My interpretation is: Nicholas is still in a trance, while we witness the Miracle coming home from the murder, blood still on his hands. To calm his nerves he pours a glass of whisky (he was a whisky-drinker, right?) and sits down, listening to the news of his own actions. The whole scene is abrupted by the voice of the hypnotherapist, waking Nicholas from his trance. Nicholas wasn't only Victoria - he was the killer/Miracle as well. He lets out a scream as he realizes the terrible fact. The static is supposed to be your own audio player, symbolically throwing you into confusion. Of course, this must have been fairly hard to arrange for the concert, so the story had to be changed somewhat to fit a theatrical version. May I be right? Portnoy talks about the story fooling you. You don't realize what's really going on until the end. The hypnotherapist being the miracle is just too silly for an album as fantastic as this one. :) Portnoy's quote: "throughout the entire album, you're led down one path toward solving the mystery (Nicholas is Victoria), but at the end it sort of twists into some different places, and you can find some clues at the end of the album that lead you to believe something else (Nicholas is the killer)". This way, the story gets a kind of a "sixth sense"-ending. The Metropolis 2000-version might have been symbolical. Through leading Nicholas to realize this, he kills his soul. Deep enough? :D Bjern 15:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The hypnotherapist is definitely the Miracle, who is definitely the killer. The Miracle kills Victoria, as stated on the record and as shown on the DVD. The Miracle tells Victoria to "Open your eyes", pointedly in the same way as the hypnotherapist tells Nicholas to "Open your eyes". No real debate here. Docta247 17:42, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

No debate? I always thought that before the hypnotherapist says "Open your eyes", a rope could be heard, as if hinting that Nicholas, after discovering what happened, and being unable to live with these memories, commits suicide, but is then waken by the hypnotherapist, as if his suicide was only part of the trance. Maybe The Miracle commited suicide after killing Victoria and The Sleeper, and Nicholas was actually him all along? HDAce (talk) 21:45, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

On the DVD, and in the commentary for it, it is shown that the hypnotherapist kills Nicholas. Offski (talk) 22:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Julian and Ed's brotherhood

Something bugs me about this marvellous album. Ed kills julian and Victoria and acts fast to let it pass off as a suicide after a broken heart case and then comes up as the sole witness to the drama... But does not the vert fact that Ed is Julian's brother should lead the police to see him as a suspect?

Good point indeed. I have thought of that many times, but after checking the album liner notes, Ed's full name was Edward Baynes and he was apparently a Senator. It MAY be implied that he manipulated the investigation or something of that sort, in order to remain free. Just my two cents.

[edit] Stage Play

Shouldn't the stage pla adaptation be mentioned? It was sone by a theater company in London called "the BATS"71.214.177.214 21:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't get hold of any information regarding this. 54UV1K 17:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


I found a list of plays performed at The BATS in Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex. It shows that they performed Scenes From a Memory in 2005. [2] Perhaps there can be a small section added about this stage play. Thesleeper38 08:50, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music

There is a lot of talk about the story of this album, but there doesn't seem to be any mention of the actual music going on ("Shrink and Grow" from Fatal Tragedy, anyone?). I think a part should added about this--142.167.93.68 15:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Rock Opera" Category

There is a "rock opera" category listing. It has the likes of 2112 and Operation: Mindcrime there. Should we include SfaM on it? Will someone make that link, please? InnocuousFox 06:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Dream Theater - Metropolis Pt. 2- Scenes from a Memory.jpg

Image:Dream Theater - Metropolis Pt. 2- Scenes from a Memory.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 19:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Old Man

When Nicholas meets The Old Man outside Victoria's house, Nicholas states that he "felt that [he] could trust him"; could it be possible that The Old Man is the reincarnation of Julian (The Sleeper)? He does seem to know some info about Victoria's murder, pointing a possible clue at this. Although it doesn't specifically state how much older The Old Man is to Nicholas, but there was a 70-odd year gap between Victoria being murdered and Nicholas going into regression (remember the album was released in 1999/2000, and the CNN report at the end of Scene Nine suggests this takes place around that time also)
Note that the final line sung in Scene Nine was "We'll meet again my friend / Someday soon", possibly referring to Victoria/Nicholas and Julian/The Old Man (and maybe Ed/The Hypno. also?); it's improbable that it could be between Victoria and Nicholas, as they share the same soul; although in Scene Eight, Victoria appears in front of Nicholas, telling him to move on, but Nicholas was still under regression, so this may just be a memory of Victoria's, with Nicholas interpreting this as something else.
Your thoughts on this?
~~NaN 11:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Falling Into Infinity Demo

As we know, Their previous album Falling into Infinity was to contain a 20-odd minute track, entitled "Metropolis Pt 2", but this was cut out.
But looking at some other tracklist I found on the internet (OK, you got me, it was a torrent site) shows a track entitled "Metropolis Pt 2 Demo (Bonus Track).mp3" at the bottom; did certain copies of this CD have the Demo track on?
~~NaN 16:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe you were looking at the track listing of the "Falling Into Infinity Sessions", an official DT bootleg available from Ytse Jam records. It had an early version of that song on it. Ledzeppelin19 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 06:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest albums of all time..... or not?

"The album was ranked number 95 on the October 2006 issue of Guitar World magazine's list of the greatest 100 guitar albums of all time" ~ First paragraph

When following the link, it leads to some forum, but is actually a dead link. Suggest removal of this statement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.54.56.253 (talk) 06:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)